Four Views of Joseph Smith

[_CaliforniaKid]

I privately shared the audio from this session with a few people on the board, but I don't think I ever shared the public link posted by Sunstone:

https://www.sunstonemagazine.com/four-v ... et-puzzle/

[_Frodo]

I really enjoyed the presentations. It is my opinion that smith's behavior more closely aligns with that of a con man. I recognize that it can be very difficult to label someone as we are complex in our behaviors. Even if you could correctly label smith as a con man at given point in his life did that always apply before and after that point.

I belive he was mostly a con man. I can see some of his behaviors as that of a pious fraud. Most people do not come home after taking advantage of someone with gleeful excitement (except for a psycopath). I think the pious fraud part of him was just his way of justifing the hurtful things he was doing to others in order to deal with that on a personal level. Again thanks, I really enjoy reading you work or listening to you.

[_Mormonicious]

I really enjoyed the presentations. It is my opinion that smith's behavior more closely aligns with that of a con man. I recognize that it can be very difficult to label someone as we are complex in our behaviors. Even if you could correctly label smith as a con man at given point in his life did that always apply before and after that point.

I belive he was mostly a con man. I can see some of his behaviors as that of a pious fraud. Most people do not come home after taking advantage of someone with gleeful excitement (except for a psycopath). I think the pious fraud part of him was just his way of justifing the hurtful things he was doing to others in order to deal with that on a personal level. Again thanks, I really enjoy reading you work or listening to you.

Horny Holy Joe started as a Con-man, lead his gullible flock as a Con-man and Died as a Con-man.

[_CaliforniaKid]

Good points, Frodo. People do defy labels. Most of the time I think most people don't even understand their own thoughts and motivations.

[_sock puppet]

I really enjoyed the presentations. It is my opinion that smith's behavior more closely aligns with that of a con man. I recognize that it can be very difficult to label someone as we are complex in our behaviors. Even if you could correctly label smith as a con man at given point in his life did that always apply before and after that point.

I belive he was mostly a con man. I can see some of his behaviors as that of a pious fraud. Most people do not come home after taking advantage of someone with gleeful excitement (except for a psycopath). I think the pious fraud part of him was just his way of justifing the hurtful things he was doing to others in order to deal with that on a personal level. Again thanks, I really enjoy reading you work or listening to you.

Would you consider JSJr trustworthy?

[_Frodo]

No, I do not consider him trustworthy. I feel the evidence speaks loudly. I see him as say 95% con man with just a smidgen of pious fraud for self pesservation.

[_Mormonicious]

I really enjoyed the presentations. It is my opinion that smith's behavior more closely aligns with that of a con man. I recognize that it can be very difficult to label someone as we are complex in our behaviors. Even if you could correctly label smith as a con man at given point in his life did that always apply before and after that point.

I belive he was mostly a con man. I can see some of his behaviors as that of a pious fraud. Most people do not come home after taking advantage of someone with gleeful excitement (except for a psycopath). I think the pious fraud part of him was just his way of justifing the hurtful things he was doing to others in order to deal with that on a personal level. Again thanks, I really enjoy reading you work or listening to you.

Would you consider JSJr trustworthy?

For example would you trust him with your teenage daughters and the trust funds you established for them, knowing you are dying?

[_sock puppet]

I really enjoyed the presentations. It is my opinion that smith's behavior more closely aligns with that of a con man. I recognize that it can be very difficult to label someone as we are complex in our behaviors. Even if you could correctly label smith as a con man at given point in his life did that always apply before and after that point.

I belive he was mostly a con man. I can see some of his behaviors as that of a pious fraud. Most people do not come home after taking advantage of someone with gleeful excitement (except for a psycopath). I think the pious fraud part of him was just his way of justifing the hurtful things he was doing to others in order to deal with that on a personal level. Again thanks, I really enjoy reading you work or listening to you.

Would you consider JSJr trustworthy?

For example would you trust him with your teenage daughters and the trust funds you established for them, knowing you are dying?

I like Frodo's quantification: 95% not trustworthy.

I would not trust JSJr with teenage daughters. I would not trust him with any money. Nor would I trust him with how I will live out the remainder of my life.

I am not interested in what labels are attached to JSJr or how well any particular one might fit. The claims today of the religion he founded affect real people's lives, right now. Is a person warranted in giving deference to those claims in ways that affect the person's life? That's what it boils down to. All the historical factoids come into play in that calculus. I like that Frodo quantified it by percentage, rather than going the I/0 route of either "trustworthy" as itself a label applies or does not.

From what I've learned about Bernie Madoff, I would not trust him with anything that I myself value. From what I've learned about JSJr, I would not trust him either with anything that I myself value, like children, spouse, money, my time or my future. The LDS church is the main organization bandying about JSJr's claims, as tools to win a person's allegiance and fealty. An organization that appeals to a founder who is not worthy of my trust is an organization itself that is not worthy of my trust.

[_Mormonicious]

So in short, trusting Horny Holy Joe would be like trusting a Serial Rapist in an all Girl's School. Or like trusting a Convicted Con-man with a Church's CASH Tithing of the year. Or like trusting a Pathological Liar to testify at your Murder Trial.

Yep. Horny Holy Joe is a PIECE OF crap. And STUPID is anyone who follows his teachings or precepts.

[_Prester John]

Don Bradley barely mentioned Joseph Smith at all.