Klaus Baer wrote:{f} ZAS 57, p. 11: The passage in question (I am quoting from the more recent edition of the Egyptian text, de Buck, Coffin Texts II, pp. 226 ff): "TO KNOW THE SPIRITS OF HELIOPOLIS. TO KNOW WHAT THOTH KNOWS AND KEEPS TO HIMSELF FOREVER. TO KNOW EVERY TEMPLE. TO BE EFFECTIVE ON EARTH AND IN THE NECROPOLIS. TO ENTER AMONG THE LORDS OF HELIOPOLIS. TO GO FORTH TO HEAVEN AND TO PENETRATE THE NETHERWORLD BY A LIVING OR DEAD SPIRIT." This is the title; most copies only have the first phrase. The text continues: "I know the spirits of Heliopolis. I have becom great among the great ones; I have come into being among those who have come into being, who see clearly in regard to his one eye (i.e. the injured eye of Horus). Open (the way) for me that I may restore the damaged eyes, for I am one of them. I KNOW THE ENNEAD OF HELIOPOLIS, INTO WHICH EVEN THE GREAT OF SEERS (the high priest of Heliopolis) HAS NOT BEEN INITIATED ..." The point here is that the deceased claims to have secret knowledge that only the gods have and in shared not even by the high priest -- which points to anything but initiations of living persons into secret knowledge on earth.
This is very intriguing. It reminds me of the Demotic novel about the adventures of Prince Setne Khamwas, who went in search of a magical book written by the god Thoth. The story strikes me very much as an initiation drama, and the aim of the trials of this initiation is to obtain secret knowledge of the gods and great magical power. It is interesting that Baer concludes that this has nothing to do with the initiation of the living, when the statement that "the great of seers has not been initiated" could be read as implying that it is not impossible that they might be initiated. Certainly, the story of Prince Khamwas depicts him obtaining the book that gives him the very same knowledge (knowing the Ennead by seeing them) these Heliopolitan priests lack. And it is further interesting that Khamwas learned of Thoth's book when an old priest told him to stop wasting his time reading the hieroglyphics at Heliopolis because they would not give him what he was looking for.
This text sort of reminds me of the Orphic Gold Tablets, buried with the deceased, which are usually read as implying an earlier initiation.
"Petition wasn’t meant to start a witch hunt as I’ve said 6000 times." ~ Hanna Seariac, LDS apologist
I would also like to add on the subject of initiation, that my little bit of research on this topic for my tongue-in-cheek threads on the Mysteries of Mehen included an article on these mysteries/initiations, which tends to contradict Klaus Baer's perspective:
Piccione wrote:Few Egyptologists would disagree that knowledge of these [mortuary] texts and their representations was imparted to the Egyptian cognoscenti through some elaborate and dramatic rite of initiation, although many would differ about the exact nature of any initiation ritual and the extent to which it affected the personal identification of the initiate.
See Peter A. Piccione, "Mehen, Mysteries, and Resurrection from the Coiled Serpent," JARCE 27 (1990) 43-52.
"Petition wasn’t meant to start a witch hunt as I’ve said 6000 times." ~ Hanna Seariac, LDS apologist
Also, from what I can gather, the Bleeker piece about initiation argues that there were no rites of passage or secret societies in Egypt but that initiations and mysteries were for those attached to temples (priests, assistants).
Symmachus wrote:"Fringe" movements are by definition not mainstream, yet Gnosticism (along with Montanism and others that seem bizarre in historical hindsight) was widespread horizontally across different geographical regions and vertically along the social scale. The more literalist movements that later coalesced into orthodoxy were the fringe movements in the second century.
I'd be inclined to frame this a bit differently. The Gnostic and Proto-Orthodox currents were surely both fringe movements within the overall context of their time. Where I'd take issue with Baer's rhetorical dismissal of Gnostic texts is that Gnosticism could draw on more intellectual sophistication - sometimes - from some of the Neo-Platonic types who got involved with it.
Johannes wrote:Incidentally, speaking of Montanism, am I right that some LDS schoalrs have claimed that the Montanists were an early version of Mormons?
Johannes wrote:Incidentally, speaking of Montanism, am I right that some LDS schoalrs have claimed that the Montanists were an early version of Mormons?
Everything ancient in one way or another has been identified with Mormonism before Mormonism. That way they feel justified in claiming there's been a restoration.
Dr CamNC4Me
"Dr. Peterson and his Callithumpian cabal of BYU idiots have been marginalized by their own inevitable irrelevancy defending a fraud."
Philo Sofee wrote:Everything ancient in one way or another has been identified with Mormonism before Mormonism. That way they feel justified in claiming there's been a restoration.
So true. And the simplistic model of apostasy and restoration is bunk. I would agree that one sees many of the same tendencies in earlier Christian movements and even non-Christian movements, but that has everything to do with richness and variety of ancient Christianities and ancient religions. It has nothing to do with an LDS idea of restoration.
"Petition wasn’t meant to start a witch hunt as I’ve said 6000 times." ~ Hanna Seariac, LDS apologist