Dieter F Uchtdorf wrote:Not long ago, the Church published photos and background information on seer stones. People have asked me, “Do you really believe that Joseph Smith translated with seer stones? How would something like this be possible?” And I answer, “Yes! That is exactly what I believe.” This was done as Joseph said: by the gift and power of God.
In reality, most of us use a kind of “seer stone” every day. My mobile phone is like a “seer stone.” I can get the collected knowledge of the world through a few little inputs. I can take a photo or a video with my phone and share it with family on the other side of our planet. I can even translate anything into or from many different languages!
If I can do this with my phone, if human beings can do this with their phones or other devices, who are we to say that God could not help Joseph Smith, the Prophet of the Restoration, with his translation work? If it is possible for me to access the knowledge of the world through my phone, who can question that seer stones are impossible for God?
Many religions have objects, places, and events that are sacred to them. We respect the sacred beliefs of other religions and hope to be respected for our own beliefs and what is sacred to us. We should never be arrogant, but rather polite and humble. We still should have a natural confidence, because this is the Church of Jesus Christ.
Dieter F Uchtdorf wrote: If it is possible for me to access the knowledge of the world through my phone, who can question that seer stones are impossible for God?
Many religions have objects, places, and events that are sacred to them. We respect the sacred beliefs of other religions and hope to be respected for our own beliefs and what is sacred to us.
Hope away. But if you maintain that your deity transmitted sacred scriptures of immense importance to the human race by using a lump of rock previously used by its owner to make money out of credulous people who wanted him to use it find buried treasure - well, don't expect that you will be treated with solemn respect rather than with amused incredulity.
Zadok: I did not have a faith crisis. I discovered that the Church was having a truth crisis. Maksutov: That's the problem with this supernatural stuff, it doesn't really solve anything. It's a placeholder for ignorance.
The i-Stone brought to you by idiots with rocks in their head and $8,000 watches on their arm.
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"In imitation of the true order of heaven where seers receive revelation from God through the Urim and Thummim, the devil gives revelations to some of his followers through peepstones or crystal balls."
Bruce R. McConkie in Mormon Doctrine
“Those who never retract their opinions love themselves more than they love truth.” ― Joseph Joubert
Dieter F Uchtdorf wrote: If it is possible for me to access the knowledge of the world through my phone, who can question that seer stones are impossible for God?
Many religions have objects, places, and events that are sacred to them. We respect the sacred beliefs of other religions and hope to be respected for our own beliefs and what is sacred to us.
Hope away. But if you maintain that your deity transmitted sacred scriptures of immense importance to the human race by using a lump of rock previously used by its owner to make money out of credulous people who wanted him to use it find buried treasure - well, don't expect that you will be treated with solemn respect rather than with amused incredulity.
And Joseph translated/received all kinds of stuff without any rock at all. The common thread in all of these instances is the fertile imagination and charismatic persuasiveness of Joseph. Which puts him in more appropriately in the company of P. T. Barnum and Madame Blavatsky rather than the legacy of a Luther or a Wesley. What a hoot. What a hoax.
For me, Mormonism dies with the stone. I don't see how one can get past the rock as a means to trick people and then all of a sudden God uses it to give us his restored gospel. Joseph himself ran away from the rock soon after the Book of Mormon was published. That should speak volumes.
"Religion is about providing human community in the guise of solving problems that don’t exist or failing to solve problems that do and seeking to reconcile these contradictions and conceal the failures in bogus explanations otherwise known as theology." - Kishkumen
For my two cents, I find the comparison between the "seer stone" and something that is the result of human creativeness, ingenuity, and money-grubbing to be apt.
Trimble, you ignorant sack of rhinoceros puss. The only thing more obvious than your lack of education is the foul stench that surrounds you.
~Those who benefit from the status quo always attribute inequities to the choices of the underdog.~Ann Crittenden ~The Goddess is not separate from the world-She is the world and all things in it.~
Exiled wrote:For me, Mormonism dies with the stone. I don't see how one can get past the rock as a means to trick people and then all of a sudden God uses it to give us his restored gospel. Joseph himself ran away from the rock soon after the Book of Mormon was published. That should speak volumes.
For the brethren to pretend that a piece of banded jasper is some piece of advanced Kolobian tech is hilarious. Note that they don't attempt nondestructive testing of the stone any more than they would undertake ground penetrating radar at the site of the Hill Cumorah. This is the conscious choice of people who are bluffing and would lose everything if they allowed their claims to be tested by anything objective. Reverse engineering a piece of alien technology could greatly benefit mankind...but it won't happen because it's BS. Uchtdorf, prove me wrong.
Hi Dieter, When matter is organized and arranged in special ways we get things like cell phones, TVs, jockstraps, sun tan lotion, even life itself. Joseph's seer stone by contrast could be described with "here is matter unorganized." Maybe this points to a hole in your home schooling. It's not your fault. by the way are you still working as a pilot? If so, could you let me know for which airlines you work? Just curious really. Thanks.
Kolob’s set time is “one thousand years according to the time appointed unto that whereon thou standest” (Abraham 3:4). I take this as a round number. - Gee
