Bgood wrote:Back in the 1950's and earlier when this revelation was recorded "Greek" was a euphemism used in Utah for black.
I'd like to see some evidence of this.
And 'evidence' will have to be rather more than 'some guy said this on his blog'.
(People in 1950s Utah felt they needed a euphemism when they referred to black people? Really? Why? Was the n-word not yet invented?)
Zadok: I did not have a faith crisis. I discovered that the Church was having a truth crisis. Maksutov: That's the problem with this supernatural stuff, it doesn't really solve anything. It's a placeholder for ignorance.
And 'evidence' will have to be rather more than 'some guy said this on his blog'.
(People in 1950s Utah felt they needed a euphemism when they referred to black people? Really? Why? Was the n-word not yet invented?)[/quote]
My grandfather on my mother's side of the family owned a barbershop at the West end of Ogden's notorious 25th Street, just across from Union (railroad) Station. He had two chairs and a shoe shine stand in his shop.
During the depression and WW2 he hired other barbers to help with the many GI's who come into his shop for a haircut, shave and shoeshine. Most of the men grandpa hired to shine shoes were black, growing up, I don't remember one of them not being black, I thought I remembered two different black barbers in his shop, but Grampa corrected me, only one who later shaved his head bald.
Grampa B. was a kind soul, he was always careful to not offend, and he always referred to his black help as "Greeks," it seemed to be a common expression in my family as a whole, I never thought much about it-- The term Greek was used to avoid the other terms often used for black people by bigoted whites.
I remember very well watching General Conference in the late 70's. Elder Bruce R. McConkie said something to the effect that the power of the priesthood may be the only way to protect us "from the atomic holocaust that shall surely be". (I"m not sure if that's exactly how he said it, but it's pretty close.)
"Religion is about providing human community in the guise of solving problems that don’t exist or failing to solve problems that do and seeking to reconcile these contradictions and conceal the failures in bogus explanations otherwise known as theology." - Kishkumen
Bgood wrote:Grampa B. was a kind soul, he was always careful to not offend, and he always referred to his black help as "Greeks," it seemed to be a common expression in my family as a whole, I never thought much about it-- The term Greek was used to avoid the other terms often used for black people by bigoted whites.
So we have one claimed and undocumented example of an idiolect said to have been used by one barber and his family.
I don't quite think that meets the need to justify the statement:
Bgood wrote:Back in the 1950's and earlier when this revelation was recorded "Greek" was a euphemism used in Utah for black.
by the way, I am puzzled why this supposedly unbigoted man felt he needed any kind of ethnic term, euphemistic or otherwise, to refer to people working in his shop. What was wrong with 'the help', 'the shoeshine boys', or 'Joe and Sid' or 'Mr Johnson'? I don't get it.
Zadok: I did not have a faith crisis. I discovered that the Church was having a truth crisis. Maksutov: That's the problem with this supernatural stuff, it doesn't really solve anything. It's a placeholder for ignorance.
Bgood wrote:Grampa B. was a kind soul, he was always careful to not offend, and he always referred to his black help as "Greeks," it seemed to be a common expression in my family as a whole, I never thought much about it-- The term Greek was used to avoid the other terms often used for black people by bigoted whites.
So we have one claimed and undocumented example of an idiolect said to have been used by one barber and his family.
I don't quite think that meets the need to justify the statement:
Bgood wrote:Back in the 1950's and earlier when this revelation was recorded "Greek" was a euphemism used in Utah for black.
by the way, I am puzzled why this supposedly unbigoted man felt he needed any kind of ethnic term, euphemistic or otherwise, to refer to people working in his shop. What was wrong with 'the help', 'the shoeshine boys', or 'Joe and Sid' or 'Mr Johnson'? I don't get it.
About what I expected.
From the Ernest L. Wilkinson Diaries: "ELW dreams he's spattered w/ grease. Hundreds steal his greasy pants."
Despite his faults of dark fantasy, I do thank BGood for referencing 25th Street as being notorious. I had no idea as I lived in Ogden for a while and have family there but never thought of any part of Ogden as "notorious". I missed out on some interesting history.
There are three primary “moments” in Historic 25th Street’s history. The first was from the time the Golden Spike was driven until roughly 1905. Prohibition marked a second period, and the third was when Prohibition was repealed.
Throughout each of these heydays, there were constant political tensions–Mormons versus non-Mormons, prohibitionists versus bootleggers. Reading Val Holley’s historical narrative, 25th Street Confidential, one gets an entertaining glimpse of the political posturing that reads more like a collection of practical jokes.
The first Ogden boom, from 1880 to 1905, is the quintessential heyday of the Wild West. Gambling, shootouts, prostitution, liquor, opium dens, and all manner of vices could be found in one place–Electric Alley. Now a parking lot between 24th and 25th Streets, it was run primarily by the notorious Madame Belle London. Perhaps shockingly, Ogden remained a haven for prostitution well through the 1940s and, in fact, prostitution was a central crime issue up until the mid 1960s with places such as the Rose Rooms and Wilson Rooms in the upper tenancies of 25th Street.
When the Progressive movement and Prohibition arrived in Utah, far earlier than the national prohibition, Ogden saw another boom. From 1917 to 1933, Ogden thrived with bootleggers and speakeasies. A series of tunnels were dug from Union Station to the Ben Lomond Hotel, and crime occurred both under and above ground as liquor and gambling played a central role in 25th Street’s economy.
With the repeal of Prohibition, 25th Street saw yet another business opportunity–that of organized crime. As railroad passenger traffic was declining, organized crime provided a boost to the economy with license money from gambling syndicates and the typical mob scene active in places such as New York and Chicago.
Sorry for the derail, but found that interesting so I thought I'd share since it was hinted at in the thread and I had no idea what it was about. As you were.
The world is always full of the sound of waves..but who knows the heart of the sea, a hundred feet down? Who knows it's depth? ~ Eiji Yoshikawa