G. Hardy @ FAIR: Non-Belief in Book of Mormon Can be "a saving grace."

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_Doctor Scratch
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G. Hardy @ FAIR: Non-Belief in Book of Mormon Can be "a saving grace."

Post by _Doctor Scratch »

Friends and colleagues--

In case you needed additional proof as to the death of Mopologetics, today, Grant Hardy has provided it--and how! This may rank among the grandest watershed moments in the history of Mopologetics that I have ever witnessed. As readers of churchistrue's posts know, it was anticipated that Grant Hardy would say something having to do with accepting that the Book of Mormon might not be fully, historically true. churchistrue noted that s/he does not believe that Hardy himself endorses this view, but many of us wondered if the talk would effectively shift the discussion away from the old-fashioned, classic-FARMS insistence that the Book of Mormon either must be fully historically true, or else the entire Church is a sham.

And in fact, according to the eye-witness reports of one prominent Mopologist, this is exactly what Hardy has done.

[Hardy] welcomed the rise of increasing academic discussions of Mormonism. Now, scholars are interested in the Mormon experience. Interest isn’t limited merely to anti-Mormons fighting Mormons. ““Sometimes,” he said, “secularism is our friend. It opens things up.”

Is this a direct rebuttal to "Reflections on Secular Anti-Mormonism"? Perhaps. It's undeniable that--based on this account--the content and tone are diametrically opposed to that old FAIR talk. The report continues:

He distinguished polemics from apologetics. Things aren’t usually black and white. They’re nuanced. We should assume good faith in many questioners and even in a number of critics. We should avoid “unhealthy partisanship.” We should “own up to problems.” We should reject rigid notions of scriptural inerrancy and prophetic infallibility.

I liked his remarks very much. I agree, and I myself have said, that we should emphasize “positive apologetics” at least as much as “negative apologetics.” (I’ve used the very terms.)

True, though it doesn't seem here that Hardy said anything favorable about "negative apologetics," which of course was the main thing that distinguished Mopologetics from apologetics. It's reason why Midgley, Gee, and Hamblin are/were Mopologists, whereas Bushman, Givens, and Hardy are not.

The report wrapped up with a couple of remarkable things:

He said almost nothing — and nothing of much importance — with which I disagreed.

And:

Some critics, I happen to know, were eagerly anticipating his speech as a move toward viewing the Book of Mormon as “historical fiction.” They will be severely disappointed. “I believe,” he said, “that the Book of Mormon is a gift from God, and that the testimonies of ancient Nephite prophets are essential for our day.” While saying that a person could have saving faith in an inspired but ahistorical Book of Mormon, he declared his own conviction that, at the judgment bar, he will meet Nephi and Moroni.
(emphasis added)

For those who've followed Mopologetics over the years, this is absolutely stunning. Here is Grant Hardy, on the Mopologists' own turf, at their most important gathering of the year, telling all of them that it's OK if Latter-day Saints don't accept the Book of Mormon as true history. Not only that, but he's got one of the most important figures in Mopologetics saying, "He said...nothing of much importance -- with which I disagreed."

I doubt I can emphasize the significance of this quite enough. In the past, commentary like this would have been met with sharp responses--possibly even an entire issue of the FARMS Review, telling us about how Hardy is a hack or a closet apostate. Now, though, the Mopologists are actually agreeing with him. I don't expect to see veiled threats and innuendos from Gee on his blog, nor an eruption of rage from Hamblin on "Enigmatic Mirror."

All those liberal LDS and Mormon Studies folks who have for so long felt marginalized and attacked by the classic-FARMS crowd can now, I guess, feel welcomed with open arms. Not only is it okay to openly doubt the historicity of the BoM--it can be a "saving grace."

It has been an exceptionally slow year in Mopologetics, but I have to admit that this single development was worth the wait. Utterly incredible.
"[I]f, while hoping that everybody else will be honest and so forth, I can personally prosper through unethical and immoral acts without being detected and without risk, why should I not?." --Daniel Peterson, 6/4/14
_Dr. Shades
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Re: G. Hardy @ FAIR: Non-Belief in Book of Mormon Can be "a

Post by _Dr. Shades »

Excellent observations, as always, Herr Scratch.

But I'm left wondering: Will the Mopologists ask forgiveness of David Bokovoy for their attacks on and marginalization of him, since Bokovoy said the exact same thing as Hardy? 'Cause it's now looking, to me, that Bokovoy's only sin was that he delivered Grant Hardy's message seven years earlier than Hardy.
"Finally, for your rather strange idea that miracles are somehow linked to the amount of gay sexual gratification that is taking place would require that primitive Christianity was launched by gay sex, would it not?"

--Louis Midgley
_RockSlider
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Re: G. Hardy @ FAIR: Non-Belief in Book of Mormon Can be "a

Post by _RockSlider »

Dr. Shades wrote:Excellent observations, as always, Herr Scratch.

But I'm left wondering: Will the Mopologists ask forgiveness of David Bokovoy for their attacks on and marginalization of him, since Bokovoy said the exact same thing as Hardy? 'Cause it's now looking, to me, that Bokovoy's only sin was that he delivered Grant Hardy's message seven years earlier than Hardy.


x2
_Doctor Scratch
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Re: G. Hardy @ FAIR: Non-Belief in Book of Mormon Can be "a

Post by _Doctor Scratch »

Dr. Shades wrote:Excellent observations, as always, Herr Scratch.

But I'm left wondering: Will the Mopologists ask forgiveness of David Bokovoy for their attacks on and marginalization of him, since Bokovoy said the exact same thing as Hardy? 'Cause it's now looking, to me, that Bokovoy's only sin was that he delivered Grant Hardy's message seven years earlier than Hardy.


I don't think so, Dr. Shades. Even if (in this post-Mopologetics world) the Mopologists are willing to dump one of the defining tenets of their movement, they still aren't going to dare stoop to something like "apologizing." I'm always happy to be proven wrong, though.
"[I]f, while hoping that everybody else will be honest and so forth, I can personally prosper through unethical and immoral acts without being detected and without risk, why should I not?." --Daniel Peterson, 6/4/14
_Dr. Shades
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Re: G. Hardy @ FAIR: Non-Belief in Book of Mormon Can be "a

Post by _Dr. Shades »

I'm sure you're right.

Poor Professor Bokovoy! For if nothing else, we all learn one thing from this affair: What gets you kicked out of BYU and blacklisted from the Mormon intelligensia in 2009 is the selfsame thing that gets you an honored speaking gig at the FairMormon Conference in 2016.
"Finally, for your rather strange idea that miracles are somehow linked to the amount of gay sexual gratification that is taking place would require that primitive Christianity was launched by gay sex, would it not?"

--Louis Midgley
_churchistrue
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Re: G. Hardy @ FAIR: Non-Belief in Book of Mormon Can be "a

Post by _churchistrue »

It was double whammy with Patrick Mason following Grant. I was moved by both their presentations.
Sharing a view of non-historical/metaphorical "New Mormonism" on my blog http://www.churchistrue.com/
_Doctor CamNC4Me
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Re: G. Hardy @ FAIR: Non-Belief in Book of Mormon Can be "a

Post by _Doctor CamNC4Me »

That's why you never want to be the first one in the chute! Hasn't anyone seen Saving Private Ryan? Get at the back of the boat!

- Doc
In the face of madness, rationality has no power - Xiao Wang, US historiographer, 2287 AD.

Every record...falsified, every book rewritten...every statue...has been renamed or torn down, every date...altered...the process is continuing...minute by minute. History has stopped. Nothing exists except an endless present in which the Ideology is always right.
_Doctor Scratch
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Re: G. Hardy @ FAIR: Non-Belief in Book of Mormon Can be "a

Post by _Doctor Scratch »

churchistrue wrote:It was double whammy with Patrick Mason following Grant. I was moved by both their presentations.


If you have the time and the inclination, I know that I would be really interested to hear your impression of the talks....
"[I]f, while hoping that everybody else will be honest and so forth, I can personally prosper through unethical and immoral acts without being detected and without risk, why should I not?." --Daniel Peterson, 6/4/14
_Gadianton
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Re: G. Hardy @ FAIR: Non-Belief in Book of Mormon Can be "a

Post by _Gadianton »

Thanks professor. A watershed moment? Like opening the door to Niagra Falls!

Doctor Scratch wrote:...classic-FARMS insistence that the Book of Mormon either must be fully historically true, or else the entire Church is a sham.


It's even worse than this. Because the Book of Mormon must be fully historical, the Church is a sham. But the only plausible historical location was Mesoamerica, and so accepting or rejecting the Limited Geography theory was shorthand for accepting or rejecting the very atonement of Christ. Even a well-meaning member who questioned the Limited Geography theory was in danger of being as a soldier of Rome positioned at Golgotha. Such a threat merited severe correction.

Doctor Scratch wrote:I doubt I can emphasize the significance of this quite enough.


I agree.

Doctor Scratch wrote:All those liberal LDS and Mormon Studies folks who have for so long felt marginalized and attacked by the classic-FARMS crowd can now, I guess, feel welcomed with open arms. Not only is it okay to openly doubt the historicity of the BoM--it can be a "saving grace."


Indeed.

It's possible that God knows that people tend to obsess over historical relics as markers for the divine, and to guard against that, he for-ordained from the beginning a non-historical Book of Mormon. The only way his children could learn the importance of separating the worship of history from the worship of the divine, was to first demonstrate the fruits of historical fanaticism -- to show the fevered crusades mentality of Mopologetics, as one example, and to show it die suddenly, and embarrassingly. As the work of Edmund Husserl implies, we can't take an experiential stance with the scriptures when so doggedly attached to historical "existence belief". And what better way to prepare his children then allow them to first experiment with the futility of history first, and then to rip the training wheels right off and let nature take its course. At the time it seems tragic, but in the grand scheme of things, it's a skinned knee and an important lesson.

I don't think anyone should have expected Grant to affirm an ahistorical Book of Mormon. But I think we should remind ourselves to read the text closely, as he advocates, and we see he also does not affirm a historical Book of Mormon. Talk of meeting Nephi and Moroni does not affirm the Book of Mormon as history. That is one possible interpretation, but there are others. Consider the importance of role-play and names in Mormonism, for instance, in the temple. Perhaps the names link to roles in a divine story, and "Nephi" and "Moroni" were characters whose symbolic purpose we come to understand through the story. Well, that's just one of many possibilities.
Lou Midgley 08/20/2020: "...meat wad," and "cockroach" are pithy descriptions of human beings used by gemli? They were not fashioned by Professor Peterson.

LM 11/23/2018: one can explain away the soul of human beings...as...a Meat Unit, to use Professor Peterson's clever derogatory description of gemli's ideology.
_Doctor Scratch
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Re: G. Hardy @ FAIR: Non-Belief in Book of Mormon Can be "a saving grac

Post by _Doctor Scratch »

The Mopologists have gone into damage-control mode:

Louis Midgley wrote:Grant Hardy did not say that it was OK for nominal Latter-day Saints to hold an incoherent position on the founding texts upon which the faith of Latter-day Saints is grounded. He merely acknowledged that there are those who hold such a confused opinion, and that they are not routinely given the boot. But the fact is that those who insist that the Book of Mormon is merely fiction somehow fashioned by Joseph Smith or some group of people who were trying to trick people for some odd reason have already excommunicated themselves. Hardy again very strongly affirmed his own position on there really being a Lehi colony as part of the larger Latter-day Saint narrative. .


The original posting suggested that belief in an ahistorical Book of Mormon was "a saving faith." That is very, very different from what the Mopologists are now saying.
"[I]f, while hoping that everybody else will be honest and so forth, I can personally prosper through unethical and immoral acts without being detected and without risk, why should I not?." --Daniel Peterson, 6/4/14
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