The Illusion of God's Presence

[_Franktalk]

and that is enough for most Mormon apologists!

There are two ways to obtain truth. One is to go inside and connect with your own spirit of truth. The other is to be visited by an advanced human in human form. No visions, no dreams, none of that. In the Temple endowment god ( actually a collective ) sends messengers to earth to find out what is going on. He (the collective ) sends the message to the earth through a messenger. Even the contact with Joseph Smith was the same. But what he wrote is not what happened. He gave the people what they wanted to hear. People had a desire that their dreams and their visions were from God. So Joseph gave them what they wanted to hear. That way they could be special in the eyes of God. The real truth we are all equal and no one is special.

But a messenger from God is not bound to tell the truth. You are charged with figuring it out. If they speak outside the golden rule then they speak a lie. This whole thing about prophets can't tell a lie is actually a lie. Read 1 Kings 13 and Eze 14. It is all there for us to find. And read Isa 1 to find out what God (the collective ) thinks of religion.

And most people who say they are prophets are not.

[_DoubtingThomas]

There are two ways to obtain truth. One is to go inside and connect with your own spirit of truth.

Someone suffering schizophrenia can tell me the same thing. Fundamentalist Muslims say the same thing too.

[_Maksutov]

There are two ways to obtain truth. One is to go inside and connect with your own spirit of truth.

Someone suffering schizophrenia can tell me the same thing. Fundamentalist Muslims say the same thing too.

Very true. But as a less pathological example, some folks love mystery more than knowledge. They prefer romantic, dramatized stories of our past and conspiracy theories of the present. They must be entertained with their enlightenment. Most good novels are mysteries to some degree but as part of the ultimate revelation of a character or a theme. But unweaving the rainbow does not destroy or undo it. Beholding your lover in their nakedness does not defile or destroy them.

[_Tator]

In the Temple endowment god ( actually a collective ) sends messengers to earth to find out what is going on.

Maybe god needs to get DISH or Direct TV.

He (the collective ) sends the message to the earth through a messenger.

Maybe god could keep up and buy a cellphone?

But a messenger from God is not bound to tell the truth.

So much for following the 10 commandments.

You are charged with figuring it out.

The Mormon god is a weak pathetic coward that can't do his job. He makes his created human being the fall guy for his failed creation. The Mormon god can't create a world and keep it good and it becomes bad so he punishes the created humans with saving the bad world. The created subjects of god have to do the dirty work for the creator. They have to save the world and save the dead and save the future world and make the hereafter good. They have to be perfect and yet god shows he is not. This is some effed up theology.

And most people who say they are prophets are not.

This I agree with and probably is one hundred percent for all time and eternity.

[_Maksutov]

The Mormon god is a weak pathetic coward that can't do his job. He makes his created human being the fall guy for his failed creation. The Mormon god can't create a world and keep it good and it becomes bad so he punishes the created humans with saving the bad world. The created subjects of god have to do the dirty work for the creator. They have to save the world and save the dead and save the future world and make the hereafter good. They have to be perfect and yet god shows he is not. This is some effed up theology.

[_Franktalk]

Someone suffering schizophrenia can tell me the same thing. Fundamentalist Muslims say the same thing too.

They did not take the inward journey leaving everything behind. Whatever you take in it is reflected back at you and you feel good about it. It is part of the opposition we are to experience in the flesh. The mind and the body are designed to give us maximum opposition in this world. This is the place that we break all of the rules. We see first hand what happens as a result.

We already live in a place where there is no sex. No death, no need to eat except of for enjoyment. We have lived there for billions of years. We come here (in the mind) to experience what happens when there are no rules. We learn to appreciate heaven. But to make this place open to free will a path must be available to obtain the truth of reality. Each human can choose to know what true reality is. But so few want to know. They instead get lost in this realm of mortal flesh. But there is no winner, no loser, no judgement, just experience.

To my knowledge there are about 300 people who did seek true reality. But that number does not mean anything. Some have regretted finding true reality. They say they were happier lost in religion.

[Guest]

Woo woo woo


Can anyone differentiate NL's bronze age journey of fire and sanctification, and Frank's new age inward journey.

Both of which only 300 or so people have ever achieved.

[_Red Ryder]

I think that religion is good at binding us to it by tickling our latent neural model of our mother (as is explored in the book you are planning on buying) and by exploiting our instinct to follow a strong Alpha.

This plays out in nature as well. Doesn't matter whether it's an alpha male silver back or David Koresh. It's interesting how humans and animals share this same instinct that eventually leads to an even stronger instinct to have sex with multiple females which then leads others to kill the Alpha.

Is this where the journey to enlightenment comes in? Or does schizophrenia and other mental illnesses come into play here and take over the brain's ability to function in reality? I would love to ask Joseph Smith, David Koresh, or Brian David Mitchell or any of the other 297 people on the list.

[_Maksutov]

Woo woo woo


Can anyone differentiate NL's bronze age journey of fire and sanctification, and Frank's new age inward journey.

Both of which only 300 or so people have ever achieved.

[_Corsair]

I have talked to believers, including my wife, about the physical and neurological processes of inspiration. This subject really came into focus for me when Stanley Koren and neuroscientist Michael Persinger invented the so called "God Helmet" to study creativity, religious experience and the effects of subtle stimulation of the temporal lobes. Reports by participants of a "sensed presence" while wearing the God helmet brought public attention and resulted in several TV documentaries.

With this in mind (literally "in mind") I asked a couple of believers to consider what Koren's God Helmet said about inspiration and the Sensus Divinitatis. The fact that these feelings can be artificially induced can be interpreted that these brain mechanisms exist as the physical conduit for God to speak to the faithful. It also could be interpreted as religion being entirely "in your head", but believers and skeptics at least have a couple of theories to discuss. The fact that this physical mechanism exists in our brains does not constitute proof of either God's existence or absence.

But it does imply that humans may have different levels of being able to "feel the spirit" that also has a genetic, inheritable component. The individuals that rise to the top of religious organizations based on inspiration may simply have a better "radio" for "talking to God" than those of us (me!) who really don't feel much inspiration. LDS leadership often falls on family lines and those lines just might be genetically inclined. The Smiths, Youngs, McConkies, Eyrings, and Kimballs just might be better at it than people who end up on MDB.