Bart Ehrman vs Robert Price

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_huckelberry
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Re: Bart Ehrman vs Robert Price

Post by _huckelberry »

Kishkumen wrote:I love Bob's writings on Early Christianity, but he does hold a lot of controversial views. His dating of Paul to the second century CE is definitely a marginal view. I think I heard one time that he thinks Marcion might be Paul? In other words, Marcion wrote the Pauline epistles?


If that were the case it would've course remove major obstacles to the belief that Jesus was a literary myth. It would even provide positive evidence of that idea.

It is a very idiosyncratic view however. I fear a debate might not have time to actually cover evidence why this idea is false, absurd, very unlikely or perhaps on the other hand tenable, likely, or potentially established. This idea might just prove to be a wall between the two debaters.

The debate might be interesting despite having little chance to resolve the questions. . If it is available to see later on such as by utube i will probably take the time to view it.
_Kishkumen
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Re: Bart Ehrman vs Robert Price

Post by _Kishkumen »

Hagoth wrote:I hadn't heard the Paul/Marcion angle but it's intriguing. I don't recall Paul saying anything blatantly Marcionite, at least as far as Jesus coming to redeem us from the wrath of frowny-face Yahweh.


I think one of the bases for saying this is that Marcion put together the first Christian canon, and it was dominated by Paul. In a way, Marcion invented the New Testament, and if Bob is right, then the fact that it now slants in a Pauline direction was quite deliberate and owed a lot to Marcion.
"Petition wasn’t meant to start a witch hunt as I’ve said 6000 times." ~ Hanna Seariac, LDS apologist
_Maksutov
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Re: Bart Ehrman vs Robert Price

Post by _Maksutov »

Kishkumen wrote:I love Bob's writings on Early Christianity, but he does hold a lot of controversial views. His dating of Paul to the second century CE is definitely a marginal view. I think I heard one time that he thinks Marcion might be Paul? In other words, Marcion wrote the Pauline epistles?

In any case, one will hear a lot of very intriguing but definitely not mainstream positions from Bob. Still, I enjoy reading all of his Early Christianity stuff. And his Mormon stuff, what little there is anyway.


Reverend, I have been reading Ehrman's book on forgeries (https://www.amazon.com/Forged-Writing-G ... ies+ehrman)
and have found it quite interesting. Not only where he challenges the authorship of much of the New Testament (including almost half of Paul's letters) but where he discusses other forgeries, the attitude of the ancient world toward them, and the various perspectives and types. I would love to see him treat the "American Apocrypha" in a work like this. :wink:
"God" is the original deus ex machina. --Maksutov
_Philo Sofee
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Re: Bart Ehrman vs Robert Price

Post by _Philo Sofee »

Maksutov wrote:
Kishkumen wrote:I love Bob's writings on Early Christianity, but he does hold a lot of controversial views. His dating of Paul to the second century CE is definitely a marginal view. I think I heard one time that he thinks Marcion might be Paul? In other words, Marcion wrote the Pauline epistles?

In any case, one will hear a lot of very intriguing but definitely not mainstream positions from Bob. Still, I enjoy reading all of his Early Christianity stuff. And his Mormon stuff, what little there is anyway.


Reverend, I have been reading Ehrman's book on forgeries (https://www.amazon.com/Forged-Writing-G ... ies+ehrman)
and have found it quite interesting. Not only where he challenges the authorship of much of the New Testament (including almost half of Paul's letters) but where he discusses other forgeries, the attitude of the ancient world toward them, and the various perspectives and types. I would love to see him treat the "American Apocrypha" in a work like this. :wink:

I also really enjoyed this book of Bart Ehrman. I thought it was one of the better ones. Excellent research in it. In fact it demonstrated to me this silliness of Mormon apologists defending pseudepigrapha as having parallels with the LDS scriptures. Ehrman is the cure for such myopic thinking. Parallels with pseudepigrapha literally have no value.
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_DoubtingThomas
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Re: Bart Ehrman vs Robert Price

Post by _DoubtingThomas »

Someone watched the debate?
_Kishkumen
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Re: Bart Ehrman vs Robert Price

Post by _Kishkumen »

Maksutov wrote:Reverend, I have been reading Ehrman's book on forgeries (https://www.amazon.com/Forged-Writing-G ... ies+ehrman)
and have found it quite interesting. Not only where he challenges the authorship of much of the New Testament (including almost half of Paul's letters) but where he discusses other forgeries, the attitude of the ancient world toward them, and the various perspectives and types. I would love to see him treat the "American Apocrypha" in a work like this. :wink:


Thanks, Mak! I was not aware of this book.
"Petition wasn’t meant to start a witch hunt as I’ve said 6000 times." ~ Hanna Seariac, LDS apologist
_huckelberry
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Re: Bart Ehrman vs Robert Price

Post by _huckelberry »

Any report on the debate? I notice that live it cost ten bucks. Perhaps an appearance on utube will be delayed to allow more tickets sales, if a record is available for a price.

I was wondering if any persuit of the idea of Marcion creating Paul occurred. I cannot help but think that a bizarre idea. Why would the churches that rejected Marcion accept strange new letters claiming to be from 100 years earlier from Marcions presentation? It has been a commonplace to observe Paul being referred to in early writing. Has commonplace habit been overlooking important points?

http://www.ntcanon.org/Polycarp.shtml
_Mary
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Re: Bart Ehrman vs Robert Price

Post by _Mary »

"It's a little like the Confederate Constitution guaranteeing the freedom to own slaves. Irony doesn't exist for bigots or fanatics." Maksutov
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Re: Bart Ehrman vs Robert Price

Post by _Mary »

From his page...he goes on to discuss archaeological evidence for the existence of Nazareth.



I am interrupting my thread on the relationship of Jesus to the Jewish law (I haven’t gotten very far: I’m still on Marcion!) because of what is most pressing on my mind right now, the debate I’m having this evening with Robert Price.  It is here in Milwaukee sponsored by a group called the Milwaukee Mythicists.  It’s a small group of people committed to, or (for some of them) at least attracted by, the idea that Jesus was not a real human being but is a myth invented by his later followers.  I suppose roughly speaking, most Mythicists are a subgroup of people who are atheist.Originally, for most of these people, Jesus was understood to be a divine being who lived in the heavenly realm (“outer space,” as some of them put it) who was crucified by demonic powers.  Later followers of Jesus historicized him and made him, in their myths, into a human being.  And then the stories emerged about him that we now have in our Gospels.  They are based principally on characters and events in the Old Testament, told in a new way now about a man that the story-tellers invented out of whole-cloth. The apostle Paul doesn’t know any of these stories.  That’s why Paul almost certainly, they claim, did not know anything about a historical Jesus.My talk is only going to be thirty minutes, followed by Bob’s talk of thirty minutes.  These then are to be followed by an hour of questions back and forth, followed by an hour of questions from the audience.  So it’s a three hour event.  (!)  But I am allowed to lay out my case only in thirty minutes.  That’s a bit tricky.I have decided to focus on the positive arguments that there almost certainly was a historical man Jesus about whom we can say some important things.  I will only be addressing the Mythicists’ own arguments briefly, in order to show why I don’t find them at all persuasive.  To do so I have chosen just two arguments that are commonly made.The first is that there could never have been a Jesus of Nazareth because there was no such place as Nazareth.  Mythicists often argue …
"It's a little like the Confederate Constitution guaranteeing the freedom to own slaves. Irony doesn't exist for bigots or fanatics." Maksutov
_Mary
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Re: Bart Ehrman vs Robert Price

Post by _Mary »

Robert, speaking last year on mythicism.

https://richarddawkins.net/2015/06/the- ... t-m-price/
"It's a little like the Confederate Constitution guaranteeing the freedom to own slaves. Irony doesn't exist for bigots or fanatics." Maksutov
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