Hales and Joseph Smith's Polyandry

[_Lemmie]

I am agnostic, I don't have a position on Joseph Smith's polyandry, so I don't think "more probable" for anything about this subject. Grindael was ignoring what I was saying about Sylvia. I told Grindael why false memory is a possibility in Sylvia's case, he ignored it.

I'll have to disagree with you on this. I read back through the thread more carefully this time, and I see that not only did Dan and grindael both make similar comments to mine about you needing to make your case for false memory, but I also see that neither Dan nor grindael ignored what you said about Sylvia- they addressed your comments and they presented their case with facts.

What I did NOT see, however, was you telling grindael specifically "why false memory is a possibility in Sylvia's case." All I saw, over and over, was you arguing that false memory is a real thing, in general, for a lot of people, in many situations. All of which are just the vaguest of generalities, and hardly relevant when it comes to evaluating the totality of evidence in a situation such as this.

1. If it was false memory in Sylvia's case, how would I prove that? What evidence would we expect?

Asked and answered, DT, asked and answered. If you want false memory considered further, make your case. So far, you have made no case for it at all.

(This all just reminds me of last fall or so when mentalgymnast argued for about 10 pages that Jenkins 'had bias,' and shouldn't be believed over Hamblin in their massive 2015 debate, but finally admitted that the only 'bias' he knew of that Jenkins had was the same general 'bias' that every human being has.

Your false memory argument has about the same weight as mg's bias argument!)

[_DoubtingThomas]

I did answer them.. so

Repeating that doesn't make it true, troll!

[_DoubtingThomas]

What I did NOT see, however, was you telling grindael specifically "why false memory is a possibility in Sylvia's case." All I saw, over and over, was you arguing that false memory is a real thing, in general, for a lot of people, in many situations. All of which are just the vaguest of generalities, and hardly relevant when it comes to evaluating the totality of evidence in a situation such as this.

perhaps I didn't explain correctly, English is not my first language.
I will try again.

1. Sylvia married Joseph Smith about 20 months before she gave birth to Josephine.
2. Sylvia obviously had sex with Windsor Lyon around the time that she married the prophet.
3. Years later, Sylvia thought she had sex with the prophet, when in fact she only had sex with lyon.
4. In the video, Dan Vogel said Joseph Smith was Sylvia's favorite. Why was the prophet her favorite, and not her own husband?

1. If it was false memory in Sylvia's case, how would I prove that? What evidence would we expect?

Asked and answered, DT, asked and answered. If you want false memory considered further, make your case. So far, you have made no case for it at all.

but what evidence and case can I make? It is impossible to prove false memory in Sylvia case. It is only a possibility, that's all.

My main point: Do you agree that eye-witnesses are not reliable? old 19th-century accounts? Do you agree with grindael that the evidence for sexual polyandry is overwhelming? Why did Dan Vogel say Josephine's statement is the best evidence for sexual polyandry?

[_grindael]

No you didn't, just saying "is not reality" doesn't prove anything LOL.

One last try at reason.

This is why you are having problems. I didn't say what you wrote above. What I said was,

[Your claim about false memory] is not based in reality. It is a product of your imagination. The alien quotes are relevant because IN THIS CASE it it just a likely that it was aliens as it was false memory. YOU have to show why it should be SERIOUSLY considered. YOU have not. You can't. You just keep repeating that it was, over and over and over again and then asking me to explain why I should take up your imaginary scenario and craft a response to it. Well, that ain't gonna happen. So grow up and stop being a troll.

READ CAREFULLY:

...it seems you are putting us on like a troll would. ... you must stick with what is written and not imagine other things--just like what you are doing now reading this.

It is really good advice. I advise you to take it. Just because you say something is NOT evidence isn't convincing. Too many other CREDIBLE people claim otherwise. And your claims about eye witness testimony is in the same boat. SHOW how these people are unreliable witnesses. Find a historical account where they were mistaken, unreliable, etc., to use as a basis to impeach their story. I've done it with accounts by others in Mormon History. Can you?

[_DoubtingThomas]

Too many other CREDIBLE people claim otherwise. And your claims about eye witness testimony is in the same boat. SHOW how these people are unreliable witnesses.

1. Dan Vogel said Sylvia's case is the best evidence for sexual polyandry. Seriously, is that it? Isn't Dan Vogel credible?

2. Sylvia was wrong, Josephine was not the dauthger of Joseph Smith, assuming she meant "biological daughter" That shows Sylvia is not a reliable witness.

[_DoubtingThomas]

History if full of s***t! We can't falsify jack sh**! Science is much better.

[_Lemmie]

What I did NOT see, however, was you telling grindael specifically "why false memory is a possibility in Sylvia's case." All I saw, over and over, was you arguing that false memory is a real thing, in general, for a lot of people, in many situations. All of which are just the vaguest of generalities, and hardly relevant when it comes to evaluating the totality of evidence in a situation such as this.

perhaps I didn't explain correctly, English is not my first language.
I will try again.

1. Sylvia married Joseph Smith about 20 months before she gave birth to Josephine.
2. Sylvia obviously had sex with Windsor Lyon around the time that she married the prophet.
3. Years later, Sylvia thought she had sex with the prophet, when in fact she only had sex with lyon.
4. In the video, Dan Vogel said Joseph Smith was Sylvia's favorite. Why was the prophet her favorite, and not her own husband?

Perhaps you didn't notice the question you quoted--what does any of the above have to do with "you telling grindael specifically 'why false memory is a possibility in Sylvia's case' " ?

1. If it was false memory in Sylvia's case, how would I prove that? What evidence would we expect?

Asked and answered, DT, asked and answered. If you want false memory considered further, make your case. So far, you have made no case for it at all.

but what evidence and case can I make? It is impossible to prove false memory in Sylvia case. It is only a possibility, that's all.

So is a master ventriloquist speaking for her during the court case who wanted Swedenborg's cult to ascend, and so is schizophrenia, and so is echolalia. Minute possibilities are given the weight they deserve, and so far, there doesn't seem to be any reason to give any weight to any of those.

My main point: Do you agree that eye-witnesses are not reliable? old 19th-century accounts? Do you agree with grindael that the evidence for sexual polyandry is overwhelming? Why did Dan Vogel say Josephine's statement is the best evidence for sexual polyandry?

What does that have to do with my question about your false memory argument? Sounds like you're just trying to move the goalposts.

If you're dropping your false memory syndrome argument and moving on, great.

[_grindael]

In the video, Dan Vogel said Joseph Smith was Sylvia's favorite.

Really, where is that?

[_grindael]

History if full of s***t! We can't falsify jack sh**! Science is much better.

Now you have resorted to incoherent babble. Bravo!

[_grindael]

Sylvia was wrong, Josephine was not the dauthger of Joseph Smith, assuming she meant "biological daughter" That shows Sylvia is not a reliable witness.

Just when I think you have presented the stupidest argument you can, you go and top it.