zerinus wrote:I don't care what you call yourself. Atheism is a belief system, just as theism is a belief system. And science can never disprove God.
Did I claim science disproved god? I claimed science disproved the flood of Noah which disproves the Book of Mormon. I claimed science disproved the fall of man as depicted in the Book of Mormon and the Bible. I claimed science disproved the idea that the elements are eternal which disproves the D&C. I claimed that the book of Abraham has been shown to be a fraud.
Kolob’s set time is “one thousand years according to the time appointed unto that whereon thou standest” (Abraham 3:4). I take this as a round number. - Gee
zerinus wrote:color=#800000]I don't care what you call yourself. Atheism is a belief system, just as theism is a belief system.[color]
[color yada yada yada]
The atheist.org site understands your situation. They note that theist influences and preconceived notions lead some to opinions such as yours, especially among those who are less educated. Here's your opportunity to learn!
(It's noted that all of your obfuscation efforts about definitions still don't hide the fact that you haven't addressed any of the issues you came here to debate with Philo. You are all fluff and no substance, Z.)
Lemmie wrote:(It's noted that all of your obfuscation efforts about definitions still don't hide the fact that you haven't addressed any of the issues you came here to debate with Philo. You are all fluff and no substance, Z.)
It didn't take him long to run from Sanctorian either, who I thought raised some very interesting points about the content of the Book of Mormon and what assumptions were being made on that. He was even willing to start with the initial premise that the Book of Mormon was legit, a much easier starting point than 0.
"If you consider what are called the virtues in mankind, you will find their growth is assisted by education and cultivation." -Xenophon of Athens
Analytics wrote:Is disbelieving in God is a belief system in the same way that disbelieving in magic elves is a belief system?
Disbeieving in magic elves is not a belief system, any more than believing in magic elves is a belief system (unless you worshiped imagic elves and believed it was God). Believing in God is a belief system, just as disbelieving in God is a belief system.
This is amazing. Disbelief has been redefined to mean belief, the exact opposite of what a reasonable person would expect. Without a common understanding of language and its meaning, it is impossible to communicate. I'm not sure your are qualified to be redefining words.
We accept the reality of the world with which we're presented. It's as simple as that. ~ Christof
zerinus wrote:Disbelieving in magic elves is not a belief system, any more than believing in magic elves is a belief system (unless you worshiped imagic elves and believed it was God). Believing in God is a belief system, just as disbelieving in God is a belief system.
This is amazing. Disbelief has been redefined to mean belief, the exact opposite of what a reasonable person would expect. Without a common understanding of language and its meaning, it is impossible to communicate. I'm not sure your are qualified to be redefining words.
Believing =/= belief... duh!
What an unbelievable (does that mean it is part of my belief system?) message
"If you consider what are called the virtues in mankind, you will find their growth is assisted by education and cultivation." -Xenophon of Athens
Doctor CamNC4Me wrote:Atheism probably can be accurately described as a 'disbelief system'. I'd be comfortable with that.
- Doc
Belief system and disbelief system amounts to the same thing, no difference. Every belief system can also be identified as a disbelief system. It is a disbelief in the opposite system.
dis·be·lief. [ˌdisbəˈlēf] NOUN
1.inability or refusal to accept that something is true or real: "Laura shook her head in disbelief" synonyms: incredulity · astonishment · amazement · surprise ·
2. lack of faith in something: synonyms: atheism · nonbelief · unbelief
---------- I really don't know how to get you understand basic English and definitions associated with words.
- Doc
In the face of madness, rationality has no power - Xiao Wang, US historiographer, 2287 AD.
Every record...falsified, every book rewritten...every statue...has been renamed or torn down, every date...altered...the process is continuing...minute by minute. History has stopped. Nothing exists except an endless present in which the Ideology is always right.
The one that always stuck with me was "if atheism is a belief, then off is a TV channel."
Kolob’s set time is “one thousand years according to the time appointed unto that whereon thou standest” (Abraham 3:4). I take this as a round number. - Gee
Thank you DrW for introducing me to this term. I love exploring things in experimental psychology. This one has turned out to be a wonderful treasure trove of discovery.
I especially enjoyed this paper on introspection illusion, and it being the source (or at least a major contributor) of cognitive bias blind spot:
Thank you again! This is incredibly enlightening, and enjoyable stuff! This is probably going to keep me busy for a while.
Doc,
You are most welcome and thanks for the kind words. Turns out that the lead author of the (very good) paper you cited is Emily Pronin - a lady with a science rock star CV (Stanford, Yale and last I heard, in the Psych Department at Princeton). She has emerged as one the the best known, if not the best known, researcher(s) in the area of introspection illusion (II). I had planned on citing some of her work in the OP, but it ended up a bit too long as it was.
Anyway, you came up with a highly relevant paper. II is also touched upon in a relatively new book on consciousness. This and other works on illusion and brain function, especially as related to religion, are available on Kindle for not much money. May post a couple of titles later.
Last edited by Guest on Tue Dec 27, 2016 8:13 pm, edited 2 times in total.
David Hume: "---Mistakes in philosophy are merely ridiculous, those in religion are dangerous."
DrW: "Mistakes in science are learning opportunities and are eventually corrected."
Analytics wrote:Is disbelieving in God is a belief system in the same way that disbelieving in magic elves is a belief system?
Disbeieving in magic elves is not a belief system, any more than believing in magic elves is a belief system (unless you worshiped imagic elves and believed it was God). Believing in God is a belief system, just as disbelieving in God is a belief system.
I can see where you are coming from, I think. If everybody has a belief system of some sort, then we could create a Venn diagram with a single circle. Belief systems that include God are within the circle, and belief systems that don't include God is outside the circle. Is that you basic point? Belief systems inside the circle are called theism, and belief systems outside the circle are called atheism. Is that how you see this?
It’s relatively easy to agree that only Homo sapiens can speak about things that don’t really exist, and believe six impossible things before breakfast. You could never convince a monkey to give you a banana by promising him limitless bananas after death in monkey heaven.
Gadianton wrote:That makes no sense z. Why is belief in a magic elf not a belief system but belief in God is a belief system?
If the core component is worship, it makes even less sense that a non-elf believer doesn't have a belief system, but then if suddenly elf believers go from acknowledging elves to worshipping elves, the non elf believer suddenly has a belief system now.
Brother Z often finds himself in the "not even wrong" category. Quite a gift.
