mentalgymnast wrote:I'm not trying to beat you up with this...but you asked me for scientific evidence for God. I've given you a link that is more or less a 'starting point'. I know there differing POV's in regards to the science connected with this principle. And there is the 'soft' and 'hard' anthropic principle. There's a lot there. But it is foundational to the science behind my turn towards a creator/God. Please go back and read my original post again.
Why?
You're still asking for evidence that God exists as though I didn't post and/or say anything in the original post I gave to you as requested.
I've given you a pretty decent place to start.
Do you see any reason to continue at this point? We are not on common ground and I don't see a clear path at this point. We'll end up talking past each other. I don't see that our Venn Diagram really has an area of commonality/contact to act as a springboard for further discussion.
What do you think?
Regards, MG
I do not see any EVIDENCE contained in the 'anthropic principle' to support/prove the existence of God. I'm really only interested in evidence at this time, not conjecture or theory or faith. So I guess not.
"Jesus gave us the gospel, but Satan invented church. It takes serious evil to formalize faith into something tedious and then pile guilt on anyone who doesn’t participate enthusiastically." - Robert Kirby
Beer makes you feel the way you ought to feel without beer. -- Henry Lawson
mentalgymnast wrote:Earlier either in this thread or another I mentioned that a number of years ago I went through a period of time when I was looking at agnosticism and/or atheism as being a valid/reasonable worldview. I later made a conscious decision to choose belief in a creator/God in whose image we are created. Everything else flows from that. The Anthropic Principle sits as a fundamental axiom in the choice I made. Since that time all the 'stuff' connected with Christianity and/or Mormonism in particular has dovetailed into that worldview.
Yes you decided to believe it solely based on your desire to believe it. You made a choice. It wasn't based on any evidence, just a desire to believe the religion of your birth. This choice helps to make you impervious to all evidence that does not support this choice. You are not open minded in this area. An open minded person is one who wants the truth more then he wants what he believes to be true.
mentalgymnast wrote:Earlier either in this thread or another I mentioned that a number of years ago I went through a period of time when I was looking at agnosticism and/or atheism as being a valid/reasonable worldview. I later made a conscious decision to choose belief in a creator/God in whose image we are created. Everything else flows from that. The Anthropic Principle sits as a fundamental axiom in the choice I made. Since that time all the 'stuff' connected with Christianity and/or Mormonism in particular has dovetailed into that worldview.
Yes you decided to believe it solely based on your desire to believe it. You made a choice. It wasn't based on any evidence, just a desire to believe the religion of your birth. This choice helps to make you impervious to all evidence that does not support this choice. You are not open minded in this area. An open minded person is one who wants the truth more then he wants what he believes to be true.
Anthropic Principle? Belief in a creator? I think I'm in pretty good company. Pascal's Wager? I've taken it. I am very comfortable living with it.
As a result, however, I am under greater obligation to consider whether or not there is 'sin' and 'obedience'...and if I should conform my life to 'commandments'.
Polygamy-Porter wrote:Dude you are trolling too hard.
You apparently have no idea what trolling means.
Thy mind, O man! if thou wilt lead a soul unto salvation, must stretch as high as the utmost heavens, and search into and contemplate the darkest abyss, and the broad expanse of eternity—thou must commune with God. - Joseph Smith
The question of "Why there is something rather than nothing?" is one where the person asking the question presupposes an answer is available. In other words, while asking the question may provide a sense of security to those that are asking it, in that there must be a response, in reality, such questions, may not make any more sense than asking "which direction is north when standing on the north pole?"
Being able to formulate a question does not mean there is a rational answer to it or that there even needs to be one.
Last edited by Guest on Thu Mar 09, 2017 9:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"Any over-ritualized religion since the dawn of time can make its priests say yes, we know, it is rotten, and hard luck, but just do as we say, keep at the ritual, stick it out, give us your money and you'll end up with the angels in heaven for evermore."
Imagine a puddle waking up one morning and thinking, ‘This is an interesting world I find myself in — an interesting hole I find myself in — fits me rather neatly, doesn’t it? In fact it fits me staggeringly well, must have been made to have me in it!’ This is such a powerful idea that as the sun rises in the sky and the air heats up and as, gradually, the puddle gets smaller and smaller, it’s still frantically hanging on to the notion that everything’s going to be alright, because this world was meant to have him in it, was built to have him in it; so the moment he disappears catches him rather by surprise.
Maksutov wrote:Douglas Adams on the Anthropic Principle:
Imagine a puddle waking up one morning and thinking, ‘This is an interesting world I find myself in — an interesting hole I find myself in — fits me rather neatly, doesn’t it? In fact it fits me staggeringly well, must have been made to have me in it!’ This is such a powerful idea that as the sun rises in the sky and the air heats up and as, gradually, the puddle gets smaller and smaller, it’s still frantically hanging on to the notion that everything’s going to be all right, because this world was meant to have him in it, was built to have him in it; so the moment he disappears catches him rather by surprise.
Right.
"Jesus gave us the gospel, but Satan invented church. It takes serious evil to formalize faith into something tedious and then pile guilt on anyone who doesn’t participate enthusiastically." - Robert Kirby
Beer makes you feel the way you ought to feel without beer. -- Henry Lawson
mentalgymnast wrote:A creator/God has to come first.
Go back and start with God. The other stuff comes AFTER that.
Do you believe in a creator/God?
Regards, MG
No. But if someone could provide some evidence to support and prove such a concept, I would certainly be open to the possibility.
Why Atheist do not change their minds with new evidence?
Only a real God could sculpt in solid rock complex compositions that account for the the sacred history of the world as recorded in the Bible and even the Book of Mormon. And include the a precise physical appearances and other details of one contemporary prophet and the one who unfolds this wonder today. And prepare it from the foundation of the earth, billions and billions of years ago, making the crumbling of the rock manifest according to his design over all that time. And to manifest in the seasons as the earth rolls around the sun both in light and shadow and require a precise line of sight. And most astoundingly various scenes manifest as if layered on the exact same place on one rock face. What more could you require. The evidence here fills up the cup and is pounded down and yet overflowing.
HELLO? AFRAID TO BE CONFRONTED BY THE LIVING GOD?
Why is there not even a slight bit of assiduous study of the merits of such a claim as this? It is not going anywhere. It is more than sufficient. Why the blindness? You asked and God provided according to you passionate demand. And kindly so while you were engaged in mocking God all the time. There is the evidence. Prove you care about truth.
Maksutov wrote:Douglas Adams on the Anthropic Principle:
Imagine a puddle waking up one morning and thinking, ‘This is an interesting world I find myself in — an interesting hole I find myself in — fits me rather neatly, doesn’t it? In fact it fits me staggeringly well, must have been made to have me in it!’ This is such a powerful idea that as the sun rises in the sky and the air heats up and as, gradually, the puddle gets smaller and smaller, it’s still frantically hanging on to the notion that everything’s going to be alright, because this world was meant to have him in it, was built to have him in it; so the moment he disappears catches him rather by surprise.
If the puddle tells other puddles that this soothing thought is actually evidence its hole was meant to be, then the analogy would be complete.
mentalgymnast wrote: Anthropic Principle? Belief in a creator? I think I'm in pretty good company. Pascal's Wager? I've taken it. I am very comfortable living with it.
You've never taken pascal's wager. Pascal's mistake was making it a binary choice. There are thousands of God's, many of them requiring belief in, and following them, as requirement for heavenly rewards, and many will punish you with eternal suffering if you don't. So if you really want to go with the point of the wager, you have to choose which of all the God's to believe in and follow. His logic is to go with the one that has the worst outcome for the unbeliever. That would not be the LDS since everyone goes to at least one kingdom in heaven, and interestingly the church has no position on whether one can move from kingdom to kingdom. Pascal's wager would easily eliminate Mormonism as a chioce, so you could never have taken it seriously. JW maybe since you would cease to exists, or some hell-fire and damnation church if you think hell-fire for eternity would be worse then non-existence. So are you going to take the wager seriously MG?
As a result, however, I am under greater obligation to consider whether or not there is 'sin' and 'obedience'...and if I should conform my life to 'commandments'.
Even the atheist and agnostic consider how they should conform their lives for themselves and everyone else. They are better then you since they will do it for the better good of all instead of doing it because you want to avoid punishment from some unseen God.
