Can anyone explain "grace" Mormon style?

[_moksha]

Can anyone explain "grace" Mormon style?

God only has so much magic to go around and that is why He needs you to supplement it with tithing and Temple ordinances. Together they make grace so amazing and exaltifying.

[_zerinus]

I have already answered that question in my latest Blog post which you can see here:

http://zerinus.blogspot.co.uk/2017/03/g ... opics.html

I have just updated it to more fully answer your specific question.

thanx so much for your link-very informative for me!

I have just updated that blog post again, by the way, to add more information to it on the Mormon doctrine of salvation, if you are interested.

[_Nightlion]

I'd have to say that zerinus' blog does a fair job of explaining the Mormon Consensus of doctrine as far as it goes and putting to rest the ignorance of the world regarding LDS tenets. Few Mormons could do as well.

The BIG problem everyone has with grace is the actual event itself.
For filthy lucre's sake the Evangelicals need to make it easy peasy puddin' and pie. Just accept it with a hearty 'THANK YOU JESUS'.
That is extreme violence and blasphemy against the Lord. Mocking the God who made you is NOT salvation. It's what is wanted by the majority of folks who need a relief of conscience to believe they are right with God regardless what ever the heck they do.

The Mormons are no different. They are ashamed to stoop so low as to expect a free pass in abject hypocrisy. They instead require a more sophisticated hypocrisy with titles and honors of men. It is the sublime organization of Mormonism that draws them and holds them tight. Alas it too is extreme blasphemy on the face of it. The honors of men is sufficient to assume one has the grace of God upon them. The priesthood became their seal of grace. And for the women they must marry a priesthood holder. AMEN.

No one can fault any of the good works done for Christ's sake across the board in all Christendom. Bravo!

The commandments of Jesus Christ require that we lay down our lives in this world to take up a new creation in Christ. THERE BE THE RUB.
Obviously, baptism is the sign of a Christian laying down his life in this world as if he is dead so that he may rise up a new creature in the kingdom of the Father. But without the compliment of a new creature being realized the act of baptism is perfunctory throughout the world taking no thought towards it profound fulfillment. And why is that? Because NOBODY KNOWS what it means to forsake the world to come unto Christ with full purpose of heart as he commands. The actual event is NOT experienced. WHY?

The reason nobody knows (except me) what it's like to actually forsake the world is obvious. Because nobody IS doing it. (except me, I really did do it. I was perfectly drawn to do it by the Father without knowing before hand, but willing to seek a healing upon my soul at any and all costs.)

How can I say so brashly that I alone did the gospel of Jesus Christ right? Because I have for forty-six years been the ONLY man teaching it right. And have suffered extreme persecution for lighting up Mormonism along the Wasatch Front about it. Plus the dribble I get back from my online preaching.

The king of the Lamanites was willing to give away all his sins, on the spot, to know the Lord. When convicted of the truth that is exactly what he did and fell down as if dead for three days. Same with Alma the Younger. The Lamanites who were persecuting the bothers Nephi and Lehi were similarly convicted and were changed from death to life after repentance as Aminadab advized them, seeing the fire upon Nephi and Lehi, it was soon upon everyone of them. (Helaman 5)

Who today will fully let go of this world to take hold upon the promise of Jesus Christ? Everything less than this come of evil and blasphemes the Lord of light. This is the step from death to life in Christ Jesus.

What does the world to to cement the WORLD implacably in place upon the hearts of the children of men.....?.....THE WORSHIP OF BEING EDUCATED....administered as the in all and be all of the good life. From the youngest age we teach children to learn. We honor their excellence with flattering ardor.

The Mormons even supplant God's glory with intelligence. And they glory in the excellence of high brow academia. All LDS leaders bow to its sway. Academia is the polar opposite of forsaking the world. And the filthy beast of it rules all nations with a rod of iron today. (Please note that all nations presently kowtow to its dark arts)

FOOLS, SLUGGARDS, and SLOOOOOOW BELLIES.

[_SPG]

Grace started out in the ancient world as a method of separating God's people from the heathens. The idea of pre-destination was more or less the deciding factor of who was saved and who was not. Basically, if you were a Hebrew, you were saved, if not. . . .

Then the Christians came along and wanted to be part of the Hebrew religion, but were not Jews. They extended to themselves the idea of Grace, Salvation by means of adoption into the Jewish religion.

Mixed with ancient Greek ideals, there was debate between Salvation by Works and Salvation by Grace. By Works, obviously meant you have to work for your salvation, do good deeds, be a good person, etc. Grace still allowed someone to be saved just by being in the right church.

The LDS church a mix of this. Obviously, you have to be in the church to be saved by Grace, but you also have to be a good a person. Debates still rage about whether or not Grace alone can save us.

Some say that the Grace of God is enough, some say it isn't. This is key to the ideals of whether God is a Just and whether he is all powerful. Can God save anyone, or . . . . . will God save everyone, if so, why and why not?

To me, Grace is a force of nature and always comes in the form of a gift. Never is it earned, but always is it available. Worthiness is based on readiness of our condition, not the favor of our superiors.

But one major application of Grace, IMHO, is the Devil. He does not tempt us, but rather holds back the instant consequences of our actions. Our "demons" are the result of misdeeds and ignorance that are held back until we are ready to deal with them. They seem ugly and scary to us, because they are our fear. These guys are "managed" for us until we can face them and put them to rest. They are soulless energy, often filled with pain and suffering.

Grace is about life (God) doing 99% of the work of living, but allowing us a 1% percent chance of expressing ourselves and developing our soul.

[_kairos]

Grace started out in the ancient world as a method of separating God's people from the heathens. The idea of pre-destination was more or less the deciding factor of who was saved and who was not. Basically, if you were a Hebrew, you were saved, if not. . . .

Then the Christians came along and wanted to be part of the Hebrew religion, but were not Jews. They extended to themselves the idea of Grace, Salvation by means of adoption into the Jewish religion.

Mixed with ancient Greek ideals, there was debate between Salvation by Works and Salvation by Grace. By Works, obviously meant you have to work for your salvation, do good deeds, be a good person, etc. Grace still allowed someone to be saved just by being in the right church.

The LDS church a mix of this. Obviously, you have to be in the church to be saved by Grace, but you also have to be a good a person. Debates still rage about whether or not Grace alone can save us.

Some say that the Grace of God is enough, some say it isn't. This is key to the ideals of whether God is a Just and whether he is all powerful. Can God save anyone, or . . . . . will God save everyone, if so, why and why not?

To me, Grace is a force of nature and always comes in the form of a gift. Never is it earned, but always is it available. Worthiness is based on readiness of our condition, not the favor of our superiors.

But one major application of Grace, IMHO, is the Devil. He does not tempt us, but rather holds back the instant consequences of our actions. Our "demons" are the result of misdeeds and ignorance that are held back until we are ready to deal with them. They seem ugly and scary to us, because they are our fear. These guys are "managed" for us until we can face them and put them to rest. They are soulless energy, often filled with pain and suffering.

Grace is about life (God) doing 99% of the work of living, but allowing us a 1% percent chance of expressing ourselves and developing our soul.

thanx-good insights. in the calvinis world the analogy is of one drowning at the bottom of the ocean floor and god sweeps down and pulls the drowning one to himself and saves that person. clearly the person dying in sin was graced by god to be saved-all god, no man's action.

in the evangelical take, the person is drowning but reaches her arm up out of the water and god's hand reaches down and pulls the person - god saved but the sinner cooperated by reaching (work) her arm up to take hold of the gift( salvation ) god offered.

probably a number of in between scenarios as you have pointed out.

in the rc and Mormon worlds the church mediates your way to heaven/salvation and you follow the plan- some grace, some/lots of work. currently the Mormons are tying a lot of works in the partaking/carrying out the ordinances of the gospel by what else , PH power.

I lean to the evangelical cooperation theory scenario with faith not being a work , thus it's all grace!

comments??

k

[_kairos]

Grace started out in the ancient world as a method of separating God's people from the heathens. The idea of pre-destination was more or less the deciding factor of who was saved and who was not. Basically, if you were a Hebrew, you were saved, if not. . . .

Then the Christians came along and wanted to be part of the Hebrew religion, but were not Jews. They extended to themselves the idea of Grace, Salvation by means of adoption into the Jewish religion.

Mixed with ancient Greek ideals, there was debate between Salvation by Works and Salvation by Grace. By Works, obviously meant you have to work for your salvation, do good deeds, be a good person, etc. Grace still allowed someone to be saved just by being in the right church.

The LDS church a mix of this. Obviously, you have to be in the church to be saved by Grace, but you also have to be a good a person. Debates still rage about whether or not Grace alone can save us.

Some say that the Grace of God is enough, some say it isn't. This is key to the ideals of whether God is a Just and whether he is all powerful. Can God save anyone, or . . . . . will God save everyone, if so, why and why not?

To me, Grace is a force of nature and always comes in the form of a gift. Never is it earned, but always is it available. Worthiness is based on readiness of our condition, not the favor of our superiors.

But one major application of Grace, IMHO, is the Devil. He does not tempt us, but rather holds back the instant consequences of our actions. Our "demons" are the result of misdeeds and ignorance that are held back until we are ready to deal with them. They seem ugly and scary to us, because they are our fear. These guys are "managed" for us until we can face them and put them to rest. They are soulless energy, often filled with pain and suffering.

Grace is about life (God) doing 99% of the work of living, but allowing us a 1% percent chance of expressing ourselves and developing our soul.

thanx-good insights. in the calvinist world the analogy is of one drowning at the bottom of the ocean floor and god sweeps down and pulls the drowning one to himself and saves that person. clearly the person dying in sin was graced by god to be saved-all god, no man's action.

in the evangelical take, the person is drowning but reaches her arm up out of the water and god's hand reaches down and pulls the person - god saved but the sinner cooperated by reaching (work) her arm up to take hold of the gift( salvation ) god offered.

probably a number of in between scenarios as you have pointed out.

in the rc and Mormon worlds the church mediates your way to heaven/salvation and you follow the plan- some grace, some/lots of work. currently the Mormons are tying a lot of works in the partaking/carrying out the ordinances of the gospel by what else , PH power.

I lean to the evangelical cooperation theory scenario with faith not being a work , thus it's all grace!

comments??

k

[_Nightlion]

Kairos why entreat me and engage me not?

[_SPG]

I lean to the evangelical cooperation theory scenario with faith not being a work , thus it's all grace!

comments??

k

God is unchanging. When the heretics, (Christians) wanted to join the Hebrew faith, the Jews rejected the idea because God doesn't change.

I believe that God doesn't change, however, I accept that I don't understand everything about God.

I believe that God is Living Truth, sort of like Biological Law, but for living everything law. The truth doesn't change, but how "I SEE" the truth changes all the time.

Here-in lies the biggest element of Grace. I thought things sucked, but as I learned, I realized that they didn't suck. I thought I was damned, but as I looked again, I realized there was a path to the light for me.

When we think we understand God, thus know the truth, we actually cut ourselves off God's Grace. When we are humble, allowing that we make mistakes, that we can be wrong, then God's Grace begins to embrace us. It's always there, the truth of it, but we cannot touch it because of our own stubbornness.

When you accept the cool things about God, that he is loving, kind, forgiving, just, etc, then we can begin to admit we don't understand.

Me, I am both Calvinist and Evangelist. The Grace is there, in an eternal, infinite sort of way. But if you don't reach for it, you will never have it.

[_kairos]

I lean to the evangelical cooperation theory scenario with faith not being a work , thus it's all grace!

comments??

k

God is unchanging. When the heretics, (Christians) wanted to join the Hebrew faith, the Jews rejected the idea because God doesn't change.

I believe that God doesn't change, however, I accept that I don't understand everything about God.

I believe that God is Living Truth, sort of like Biological Law, but for living everything law. The truth doesn't change, but how "I SEE" the truth changes all the time.

Here-in lies the biggest element of Grace. I thought things sucked, but as I learned, I realized that they didn't suck. I thought I was damned, but as I looked again, I realized there was a path to the light for me.

When we think we understand God, thus know the truth, we actually cut ourselves off God's Grace. When we are humble, allowing that we make mistakes, that we can be wrong, then God's Grace begins to embrace us. It's always there, the truth of it, but we cannot touch it because of our own stubbornness.

When you accept the cool things about God, that he is loving, kind, forgiving, just, etc, then we can begin to admit we don't understand.

Me, I am both Calvinist and Evangelist. The Grace is there, in an eternal, infinite sort of way. But if you don't reach for it, you will never have it.

yours is one great post- I hope NL especially reads it.
thanx
k

[_kairos]

Kairos why entreat me and engage me not?

NL
you have had a unique, you believe, spiritual experience so I can sorta understand why you say you are the only one who is right about grace, salvation, eternal life. in my experience religions and people who believe they alone are "right" ,that they have the full and true gospel have a control or power and ego problem. I believe you would probably claim to be the most humble child of god , all in for Christ, yet claiming no one else has what you have in terms of a special relationship with god, means you probably need to reconsider your position.

for me , I am a sinner saved by grace, and try to live every moment for Christ.

k