We have the smoothest liars in the world - B. Young

[_Sanctorian]

Journal of Discourses 4:77; “I have many a time, in this stand, dared the world to produce as mean devils as we can; we can beat them at anything. We have the greatest and smoothest liars in the world, the cunninest and most adroit thieves, and any other shade of character that you can mention."

Might be the most prophetic words in this dispensation.

[_DrW]

Not sure how prophetic the words were, since BY was referring to his contemporaries.

However, the exceptionalistic aspect of the Mormon ethos to which he refers, although morphed a bit, is certainly still evident in Mormonism's so-called apostles and prophets - the ones to be found in Salt Lake City as well as in federal prison for raping children.

[_JLHPROF]

It has always been this way.
The gospel produces the best devils AND the best angels.

Apostasy is a great way to create the truly wicked.

[_SteelHead]

As is belief. Just look at what Joseph Smith did with his life.

Serial adulterer. Financial fraud. Affinity fraud. Treasure seeking. Pedophile.

[_RockSlider]

It has always been this way.
The gospel produces the best devils AND the best angels.

Apostasy is a great way to create the truly wicked.

Steven Weinberg said:

"With or without religion, good people can behave well and bad people can do evil; but for good people to do evil — that takes religion."

eta:

We are saying the same thing right? And based on 'old school' exactly who is in Apostasy?

[_JLHPROF]

Steven Weinberg said:

"With or without religion, good people can behave well and bad people can do evil; but for good people to do evil — that takes religion."

eta:

We are saying the same thing right? And based on 'old school' exactly who is in Apostasy?

Best definition of apostasy I heard was "moving away from truth".
We'd have to determine what was truth first. (A super easy task I know).

Even for the faithful in Mormonism given all the changes it is hard to know at what point the most truth to date had been restored.

And as you know, for me, we had more truth in the 1800s than in the 1900s and today.
For the average Church TBM we have more truth today than at any point in Church history.
And for the average critic or ex-member we have no truth and never have so defining apostasy serves no purpose.

[_deacon blues]

I think Joseph Smith was a pretty smooth lier. His "I can only find one wife" speech rivals Bill Clinton or Richard Nixon at their best.

[_Choyo Chagas]

And as you know, for me, we had more truth in the 1800s than in the 1900s and today.

this sentence is wrapped up for me, so i disassemble it

And as you know, for me

we all know who which type are you. we can keep on

for me

yes, for you.
others, nonbelievers or those who believe differently, don't count.

we had more truth in the 1800s than in the 1900s and today

we? who are the "we"?
if "we" were you and me, then i repel any parallel of us
if "we" were you and any member of this site, then it is their business to vindicate themselves

now, the fixed sentence should be
" I had more truth in the 1800s than in the 1900s and today"
and this is 100% true
you are living in 1800s

then what are you about internet and computer keyboard? here?
go back to 1800s, and die by diseases became curable in the 1900s and today - known truths in the 1900s and today

no, sorry brother, don't die
know better than the 1800's troglodytes

[_Philo Sofee]

As is belief. Just look at what Joseph Smith did with his life.

Serial adulterer. Financial fraud. Affinity fraud. Treasure seeking. Pedophile.

Niiiiiiiice catch!

[_RockSlider]

Best definition of apostasy I heard was "moving away from truth".
We'd have to determine what was truth first. (A super easy task I know).

Even for the faithful in Mormonism given all the changes it is hard to know at what point the most truth to date had been restored.

And as you know, for me, we had more truth in the 1800s than in the 1900s and today.
For the average Church TBM we have more truth today than at any point in Church history.
And for the average critic or ex-member we have no truth and never have so defining apostasy serves no purpose.

"and as you know, for me, we had more truth in the 1800s than in the 1900s and today"
This is as I suspected and based on your own definition, the current GA's would be in a state of apostasy, right?

I assume you are being sarcastic with the "For the average Church TBM we have more truth today than at any point in Church history"

How do you come up with the conclusion that "defining apostasy servers no purpose"? The average TBM might not recognize it, and yet it's a truth issue right?

I believe you and I have defined it the same way. I wonder if you will state/admit that the current leaders are in a state of apostasy?