Question to Dehlin fans about "Rape in Mormon Culture"

[_Lemmie]

Why would there be only two extreme options in any of these complicated situations under discussion?

If I am wrong please tell me what the third option is?

No. Work it out for yourself. And no, there's not only a third option, there are many, many options. If you have an interest do some research. You could start with the excellent posts given in this thread by Res Ipsa, honorentheos, and Chap.

Opponents to medical marijuana say there are plenty of other options, but never read the case of Clayton Holton.

What does that have to do with anything being discussed? What is your point?

[_DoubtingThomas]

What does that have to do with anything being discussed? What is your point?

My point is that not everything has multiple solutions, options, or answers. Just because someone says "there are more options" doesn't mean it is true
https://youtu.be/EQS3KEGtdBI

No. Work it out for yourself. And no, there's not only a third option, there are many, many options. If you have an interest do some research. You could start with the excellent posts given in this thread by Res Ipsa, honorentheos, and Chap.

There are millions of cases, not all of them have multiple solutions. There are plenty of psychologists and therapists that agree affairs can help some marriages.

He argues that when we get married we don't really understand our agreement. We humans didn't evolve for lifelong monogamy.
What happens if you get married because of your religion, or because some "spiritual revelation" told you to marry someone? and what happens when you find out your "spiritual revelation" was just a hallucination?
I know dishonesty is immoral, but sometimes under some circumstances it is better than the truth. I still think affairs are better than abandoning your spouse. You disagree?

[_Lemmie]

Come on DT. Do better research. Your quote comes from a non-attributed, reference-free blog entry titled: Psychological Aspects of Gambling Addiction, which is posted at a website called

It comes from a book called The Savvy Gambler by Abder-Rahim Biad. I thought the statement was uncontroversial. Alcohol makes you keep gambling for more and more, Casinos need alcohol.

That's your source? And where did he take the list from? Off the Psychic website? May I repeat, if you are truly interested, do some actual research. Taking the word of every Amazon e-book that pops up high in your random Google search is not a good idea.

[_Lemmie]

.....You disagree?

Yes. You are over-simplifying.

[_DoubtingThomas]

That's your source?

Again, I thought it was a common sense statement

"There are a few things Vegas casinos do to keep you gambling (no clocks, no windows, and plenty of lights and sounds), but the trick that works the best is plying customers with free drinks to keep them playing, and playing poorly." - businessinsider

sltrib writes,

The quintessential Las Vegas or Atlantic City casino experience comes with card dealers in ties, feather-festooned showgirls and the most coveted amenity: the free drink. Yet as casino gambling has migrated from America's storied gambling towns to middle America, the complimentary cocktail hasn't always survived the trip. The reasons are sometimes moral, sometimes economic. The new generation of casinos faces varying guidelines established by local legislators who didn't always support their arrival. Paying for drinks has left lovers of the freebie, like Lynette Gross of Indiana, bummed. "It just makes it more fun. It's one less thing you have to pay for," said Gross, who has visited casinos in Indiana and Las Vegas. "I don't think it makes you drink more. It's just a nice perk." A new Ohio law puts the state's up-and-coming casinos -- just approved by voters in the fall -- among those that don't allow complimentary cocktails. Other Midwestern states -- Missouri, Illinois, Indiana and Kansas -- don't allow their casinos to offer free alcohol, says the American Gaming Association.

[_Lemmie]

That's your source?

[more stuff unrelated to discussion]

This entire line of Amazon and Wiki supported references came about because you said this:

In strip clubs (at least some of them) the ladies use some aggressive and misleading tactics to take all the money away from them. A friend from work told me that two girls approached him for a dance. The girls told him the dance would include both of them because he was the first lucky guy to arrive. After the dance, they charged him double, so he was not really "lucky". He wasn't even drinking, I could imagine what they do to drunk guys. Would that be abuse?

So no, I don't recognize Scientific Pyschic, Amazon e-books, or whoever that author stole the list from as sources for common sense statements that support any of the above, or any of your consequent statements about casinos.

(ETA: Do you realize the sltrib excerpt you posted actually states the opposite of your common sense conclusions?)

Res Ipsa, on the other hand, gave some very good advice related to alcohol and casinos. Start there.

[_Res Ipsa]

Dr. Darrel Ray discusses affairs here
https://secularsexuality.dogmadebate.co ... els-story/

He argues that when we get married we don't really understand our agreement. We humans didn't evolve for lifelong monogamy.

Sorry, I'll read anything. But I'm not going to listen to a lengthy podcast to get one piece of information. Can you give me a time tic for what you're referring to.

Our brains are not evolved for lots of situations we encounter in modern life. That doesn't address the moral implications of our decisions when we're put into those situations. Even if I'm not evolved for lifetime monogamy, that doesn't answer the question: "Should I have an affair and lie to my spouse about it?"

What happens if you get married because of your religion, or because some "spiritual revelation" told you to marry someone? and what happens when you find out your "spiritual revelation" was just a hallucination?

Well, all kinds of things could happen. I think you could make a fine argument that it's moral to reject an agreement you've made only because you were tricked into making it. But that doesn't answer the question we're talking about. The question is: is it moral to break the agreement without telling the other party? Your spouse may very will not want to stay in a marriage with you if you are having sex with another woman. The question is: when, if ever, is it moral to deprive her of that choice?

I know dishonesty is immoral, but sometimes under some circumstances it is better than the truth. I still think affairs are better than abandoning your spouse. You disagree?

I absolutely agree that there are circumstances under which being truthful is not the most moral choice. If I'm hiding Anne Frank in my basement, I think it's absolutely moral to lie to the Gestapo. In fact, it may be immoral to tell the truth.

But my spouse is not the Gestapo, and the hot woman at work isn't Anne Frank hiding from the Nazis.

I think you're setting up a false dichotomy. Let me offer a third choice: tell your spouse in advance you want to change the terms of the marriage and why. Let her choose whether your new terms are acceptable to her. Why is that not more moral than the two alternatives you've given?

[Guest]

Res Ipsa, on the other hand, gave some very good advice related to alcohol and casinos. Start there.

It's the same thing, he wrote, "Casinos will give you all kinds of stuff, depending on how much you are betting. It's called being "comped," and there are tons of internet articles you can find that discuss the practice. Lots of Casinos today make the comping rules explicit by having "players clubs" you can join. The more you gamble, the more points you earn. The more points, the more free goodies." You get "free goodies" so you can keep playing. Nothing is really free.

Richard Daynard, a law professor at Northeastern University and the president of the Public Health Advocacy Institute, explained at the group’s forum on casino gambling in the fall of 2014, “The business plan for casinos is not based on the occasional gambler. The business plan for casinos is based on the addicted gambler.”

[_DoubtingThomas]

The question is: is it moral to break the agreement without telling the other party? Your spouse may very will not want to stay in a marriage with you if you are having sex with another woman. The question is: when, if ever, is it moral to deprive her of that choice?

1. spouse depends on you, say he or she is in a wheelchair for example. Who else is going to take care of him or her?
2. when you have kids. Divorce is not good for your children.
3. You love your spouse. Having an affair doesn't mean you don't love your spouse, especially if you have needs like Dr. Darrel Ray argues.

[_Res Ipsa]

Why would there be only two extreme options in any of these complicated situations under discussion?

If I am wrong please tell me what the third option is?

Opponents to medical marijuana say there are plenty of other options, but never read the case of Clayton Holton.

Dr. Ray is not the only one that believes affairs can help some marriages, a world-renowned therapist, Dr. Mira Kirshenbaum also agrees.

https://www.amazon.com/When-Good-People ... 0312563442

Do either of the authors you cite say anything like "here are the circumstances under which I recommend you have an affair?"

Here are two options in addition to the two you've listed: (1) tell your spouse you want to have sex with other people and let her choose whether your proposed change to the marriage relationship is acceptable to her (2) Get a porn subscription and jerk off.