Res Ipsa wrote:To put it crudely, what's the difference between "spiritual revelation" deciding for her and your dick deciding you "need" to have an affair. If you can't trust a women enough to make fundamental decisions like "should I stay married to you," for God's sake don't marry her. To not trust your marriage partner to make those kinds of decisions demonstrates a profound disrespect for her. in my opinion, it will also kill any prospect of having a happy marriage.
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Bolding added by me.
You have 100% nailed it with the above quote, Res Ipsa. This entire train of thought for DT about affairs is built on an incredibly immature understanding of how a healthy relationship works. If you truly love and respect an individual it is wrong not to give them the opportunity to decide for themselves. If one doesn't think their spouse worthy of that level of respect and trust then they certainly should not be in a relationship.
As a later convert, I found this to be a major problem with the patriarchal teaching of the church. It often leads individuals to incorrectly believe that they are a better arbiter for life decisions of others, particularly their SOs.
"If you consider what are called the virtues in mankind, you will find their growth is assisted by education and cultivation." -Xenophon of Athens
One of the best things I ever did was fight to reset what was wrong in my life because of my young marriage.
Instead of constantly worrying about relationship problems because my own relationship is wrong, I get to have a real relationship with someone who is a partner, an equal, and for whom I have great love and respect. My kids get to have a man in their life they can respect and learn from and I don't have to worry about unmet needs or ridiculous concepts like "responsible affairs" that are perpetuated by people who believe they're stuck, who stay for social perks or who feel better after convincing themselves they're doing the "right" thing.
It's just better. It's right.
Take care of the problems the real way. It's worth it despite costs once you get to the other side. I'd do it all again anyday because now I don't have to live in a prison and my family is healed.
Hard road. Valuable payoff.
I just celebrated my two-year "anniversary." I love him. The other worries are all gone. Worth it.
It occurred to me that I have two more things I want to record about my thoughts regarding "responsible affairs" that are secret and are justified by the reasoning, "my spouse needs me."
1) If your marriage isn't sexually satisfying and you're wanting to take care is your sexual needs outside of it, rather than having a "responsible affair" because your spouse "needs" you, how about setting her up honestly and fairly in a divorce? Empower her. Make sure she has everything she needs to continue in her role as a mother and find her resources to help with job training and employment. Do whatever you can for her and your kids to help rehabilitate her from the less empowered position she's found herself in due to the religion you share(d).
If you're convincing yourself a "responsible affair" is okay because your spouse "needs" you and is a "good person," you're probably lying to yourself. She only "needs" you because you contribute to that system. Do what you can to make is so she doesn't.
And, mostly, acknowledge to yourself that you are really taking care of your "needs" by staying, not hers. You probably like the social perks and status your marriage gives you. You probably don't want the shame or the disrespect of divorce.
(Yes, I choose the word "needs" instead of "wants" or "desires" when referring to sex because denying the physical necessity of sex for all but the asexual is more a method of shaming people for giving into their "desires." Pretending they're just desires is a very effective method of social control that is associated with a lot of misery on this planet. Misery and power grabs.)
2) Even if you're able to somehow magically ensure your "responsible affair" is right for your family (I think that's pretty impossible because there are so many factors involved, but for te sake of argument let's assume this has been accomplished), how are you going to ensure it's right for the whole family, including spouse and children, of the other person who is a party to your "responsible" infidelity?
The hard truth is that single people don't often get into sexual relationships with married people. If you're married, you're stuck fishing from the married pool. Single people are free. Unless they're very unattractive or are digging for money or power, they're not likely to mess with married men. The single world is full of potential relationships. I had quite a few married men approach me when I was in my single phase. The married men were clingy, more deceptive (they tried to get me drunk) and "needier" than the single men. And on top of all that, they had the disadvantage of being married! No chance.
To succeed, married men have to target married women and the married women they're most likely to be successful with are married women in bad relationships of their own. Vulnerable ones. Needy women like their own wives they contribute to the "neediness" of.
So what men are really talking about when they say they're want "responsible affairs" is putting their "needy" wife, their children, another women who may also be disempowered and probably has a jerky husband (or why would she be responsive?) and her children and husband at risk of harm.
How is that anywhere close to "responsible"? "Selfish" is s better word. Or "predatory." Maybe "entitled" or "cowardly."
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Just no. Take care of sexual needs (and I acknowledge that they are needs) more responsibly. The world doesn't revolve around the sexually dissatisfied husband who feels obligated to his "needy" wife (so patronizing!) when the reality is that he has the power to fix things if he'll humble himself a tad and take a few losses for the team.
DoubtingThomas wrote:Again I know dishonesty is not a good thing, but I don't see how responsible affairs are the worst thing in the world, especially if you need them. Abandoning your spouse is much worst, especially if your spouse and children need you.
You're clearly very young, and the truth is that you don't have the ability to make that call. I'm sorry. If it's any consolation, men (and women) twice your age also often don't have the ability to make that call. Having an affair may sometimes be morally acceptable, but if you go down that route you take a momentous responsibility onto your shoulders. If you end up making a serious mistake that hurts a bunch of people, it won't be Dr Darrel Ray who ends up living with the consequences.
You've been given some excellent advice by some of the posters on this thread, and I've got nothing to add to it. I have a feeling that you're going to need to have a serious talk with your girlfriend sooner rather than later.
Res Ipsa wrote: As long as we have a common understanding of what "enthusiastically consent" means, yes.
I just watched a presentation (published by Shermer's Skeptic) by Dr. Carol Tavris. Dr. Tavris has a PhD in social psychology, and she is a skeptic and a feminist. What are your thoughts? Does Dr. Carol make interesting points?