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I watched "Mormon Stories #636: Rape in Mormon Culture" and I agree there is a problem in BYU and it's honor code.

However, I also read a very interesting psychologytoday article, ""Incapacitated Rape" Really Rape? why consent given during a blackout might in fact count" written by Dr. Liz Swan (female), her research is on incorporating biology, neuroscience, evolutionary psychology, artificial intelligence, and interdiscipline
https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/co ... eally-rape

So my question is what counts as rape in cases involving excessive drinking? If a drunk woman can't give consent or make a decision, does that also mean she is not responsible if she drives and hits someone?

A website says, "If sleep intervenes before the end of the amnestic period the individual may believe, unless contradicted by those whom they trust, or by incontrovertible evidence (for example CCTV evidence or the fact of their return to their own home) that they were asleep for the whole of the period for which they have missing memory. In some cases this may lead to an allegation that they were raped whilst asleep even though they were consenting and fully participating in the sexual activity."

A study found "Cognitive and memory impairment occurs before motor impairment, possibly explaining how a drinker appearing fully functional can have little subsequent memory."
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21769024

and another found “On US college campuses women are as likely to have a memory blackout as men despite consuming lower quantities of alcohol”
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3210864/

So how can a victim that was very drunk prove that a rape crime happened?

DT have you been accused of rape? Truthfully or falsely? Or a close family member?

You just seem very vested in this issue, especially from the view point of the male being the victim and being falsely accused. I know it happens but you have really emphasized it here and also on another past thread.

I am also not real clear on what all the links and their subject matter have to do with BYU and it's honor code.

Tator wrote:DT have you been accused of rape? Truthfully or falsely? Or a close family member?

You just seem very vested in this issue, especially from the view point of the male being the victim and being falsely accused. I know it happens but you have really emphasized it here and also on another past thread.

Did you read https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/co ... eally-rape? Did you listen to that Mormon Stories episode? I did listen to the episode the other day, and I simply want some clarification.

I talk about it because no one here talks about it, and the entire 2 hour Mormon Stories episode never talks about it.

I agree rape is a big problem, but so are false accusations. But don't worry, I don't plan to be "very vested in this issue". I read and talk more about science and politics. It's just a subject that I been reading about these past couple of days

DoubtingThomas wrote:I watched "Mormon Stories #636: Rape in Mormon Culture" and I agree there is a problem in BYU and it's honor code.
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So how can a victim that was very drunk prove that a rape crime happened?

Is this what you really want answered? Is this the focus of the OP?

Sorry you have me confused. Please clarify what you want.

by the way I am neutral on Dehlin so I am not a fan or a foe. I guess I shouldn't have responded.

Tator wrote:Is this what you really want answered? Is this the focus of the OP?

Sorry you have me confused. Please clarify what you want.

"So my question is what counts as rape in cases involving excessive drinking?"

DoubtingThomas wrote:"So my question is what counts as rape in cases involving excessive drinking?"

What does the law say? That is what I count as rape. I imagine it may vary from state to state.

What counts for rape to you?

Tator wrote:

DoubtingThomas wrote:"So my question is what counts as rape in cases involving excessive drinking?"

What does the law say? That is what I count as rape. I imagine it may vary from state to state.

please read article so you can answer my question, I simply want to know the opinion of people here in Mormon discussions
https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/co ... eally-rape

and don't worry, I will never touch a person without consent as defined by the law, if that is what you are thinking.

DoubtingThomas wrote:I will never touch a person without consent as defined by the law, if that is what you are thinking.

I'd prefer it if you had said something less lawyer-like on such a topic.

We are after all not talking about buying a used car, but about initiating the most intimate interpersonal activity we take part in. In this dialogue, something is wrong:

A: That was a horrible thing to do! Leave me alone! How could you ever think you had the right to do that to anyone???

B: Nevertheless it was decided in the case of Jones vs. Smith, which was appealed to the Supreme Court, that under the circumstances which pertained it was reasonable to presume consent. I'm sure you'll feel better about what happened if you read the explanation on this website ...

DoubtingThomas wrote: I will never touch a person without consent as defined by the law, if that is what you are thinking.

This is a statement of future intended behavior. What about your past behavior?