MG is pretty adamant that most, if not all of us atheist/agnostics are liars or would be more likely to lie in order to advance our agenda (whatever that means). I was trying to think what 'we' could possibly gain from fabricating a position on a board like this.
I don't see anyone trying to make a buck (except Zerinus). I don't see the benefit in lying about the history of the church (the truth is too rich and well documented).
Aside from blurring some details to keep your anonymity (which MG himself participates in), what could one possibly gain from lying on a board like this?
Does it make sense to lie on a board like this?
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_Sanctorian
- _Emeritus
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Does it make sense to lie on a board like this?
I'm a Ziontologist. I self identify as such.
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_Chap
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Re: Does it make sense to lie on a board like this?
Sanctorian wrote:what could one possibly gain from lying on a board like this?
Isn't it obvious?
You want to sin - mainly drink coffee and watch porn while pulling the wings off flies.
But you know the Church Is True!!!!
... so what alternative do you have to lying in order to free you to get on with the caffeine/porn/insect cruelty that you love so much?
LYING, that's what!
Zadok:
I did not have a faith crisis. I discovered that the Church was having a truth crisis.
Maksutov:
That's the problem with this supernatural stuff, it doesn't really solve anything. It's a placeholder for ignorance.
I did not have a faith crisis. I discovered that the Church was having a truth crisis.
Maksutov:
That's the problem with this supernatural stuff, it doesn't really solve anything. It's a placeholder for ignorance.
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_I have a question
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Re: Does it make sense to lie on a board like this?
The bigger question is why would you take any assertion MG makes seriously?
A more disingenuous, intellectually dishonest, disturbingly ego-centric poster you could not hope to find.
As for not telling the truth, you'll find find more examples of that coming from Church defenders simply because the truth claims if the Church don't stack up to any kind of critical thinking. Defenders gave to play the Magic 8 Ball protocol at some point in any discussion or debate as a Trump Card that negates any and all objective evidence.
A more disingenuous, intellectually dishonest, disturbingly ego-centric poster you could not hope to find.
As for not telling the truth, you'll find find more examples of that coming from Church defenders simply because the truth claims if the Church don't stack up to any kind of critical thinking. Defenders gave to play the Magic 8 Ball protocol at some point in any discussion or debate as a Trump Card that negates any and all objective evidence.
“When we are confronted with evidence that challenges our deeply held beliefs we are more likely to reframe the evidence than we are to alter our beliefs. We simply invent new reasons, new justifications, new explanations. Sometimes we ignore the evidence altogether.” (Mathew Syed 'Black Box Thinking')
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_Doctor CamNC4Me
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Re: Does it make sense to lie on a board like this?
People lie for all sorts of reasons. I think on a board like this it's to establish credibility so one's opinion is taken seriously. For example we have Bach, who regularly claims to be a millionaire businessman employing x-number of people. Despite him not being able to keep his story straight, and being about as dumb and unreadable as LDSFATs, he sticks to his schtick so he can troll the forum with Trumpy observations about Leftists specifically and politics in general. If we knew his in real life identity, and that in fact he's a barely literate semi-employed old “F” ing Mormoron priesthood yokel, he would be cast in a different light.
MG regularly lies about his motivation for posting here and defines himself as an open-minded centrist ideally to give his schtick some legs when towing the party line and derailing thread after thread. Seeking catharsis for personal impotence is motivation enough for our TBM fanatic.
- Doc
MG regularly lies about his motivation for posting here and defines himself as an open-minded centrist ideally to give his schtick some legs when towing the party line and derailing thread after thread. Seeking catharsis for personal impotence is motivation enough for our TBM fanatic.
- Doc
In the face of madness, rationality has no power - Xiao Wang, US historiographer, 2287 AD.
Every record...falsified, every book rewritten...every statue...has been renamed or torn down, every date...altered...the process is continuing...minute by minute. History has stopped. Nothing exists except an endless present in which the Ideology is always right.
Every record...falsified, every book rewritten...every statue...has been renamed or torn down, every date...altered...the process is continuing...minute by minute. History has stopped. Nothing exists except an endless present in which the Ideology is always right.
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_Sanctorian
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Re: Does it make sense to lie on a board like this?
Doctor CamNC4Me wrote:People lie for all sorts of reasons. I think on a board like this it's to establish credibility so one's opinion is taken seriously.
I suppose this could be a reason, though I'm not sure what a critic or regular poster gains from lying. The church history is what it is. Lying about it as a critic seems counterproductive since the history is already the church's own worst enemy.
On the flip side, an apologist most certainly would have motivation to lie. If they participate in a board like this, they would have to fabricate some version of reality just to keep on defending the church or deflect the criticism away from the church. We certainly see that with MG.
To be clear, I don't believe all defenders are fabricating or intellectually dishonest. Churchistrue or even old BCSpace (what happened to that guy) do a good job stating their position without feeling a need to 'lie for the lord'.
I'm a Ziontologist. I self identify as such.
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_Maksutov
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Re: Does it make sense to lie on a board like this?
Sanctorian wrote:Doctor CamNC4Me wrote:People lie for all sorts of reasons. I think on a board like this it's to establish credibility so one's opinion is taken seriously.
I suppose this could be a reason, though I'm not sure what a critic or regular poster gains from lying. The church history is what it is. Lying about it as a critic seems counterproductive since the history is already the church's own worst enemy.
On the flip side, an apologist most certainly would have motivation to lie. If they participate in a board like this, they would have to fabricate some version of reality just to keep on defending the church or deflect the criticism away from the church. We certainly see that with MG.
To be clear, I don't believe all defenders are fabricating or intellectually dishonest. Churchistrue or even old BCSpace (what happened to that guy) do a good job stating their position without feeling a need to 'lie for the lord'.
Willingness to lie about church matters, just like willingness to reject every possibility but acceptance of the Book of Mormon, is a public demonstration of one's faithfulness/fanaticism/loyalty/commitment/determination/priesthood power/blind piety/intellectual mediocrity/insecurity/weaponization. (slash away!) It's like Chuck Colson proclaiming he would drive over his grandmother to elect Richard Nixon. There's an element of good ole boy braggodocio that follows with the Brigham Young "smoothest liars in the world" comment. Mormons crave power and deference like other mortals but are willing to construct the most intricate if improbable microverses to make it all sort of real. There are the theo-lies, then there are the everyday ones to get you out of tight spots regarding women and money. Joseph did it all and created the template for his successors.
I kind of miss BCSpace. He was my faithful astronomer buddy.
"God" is the original deus ex machina. --Maksutov
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_candygal
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Re: Does it make sense to lie on a board like this?
Being able to completely reveal my truths/experience and feelings is the reason I love this board. Why lie to any of you? This is what makes us real and genuine. I thank you Dr. Shades!!
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_Xenophon
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Re: Does it make sense to lie on a board like this?
Doctor CamNC4Me wrote:People lie for all sorts of reasons. I think on a board like this it's to establish credibility so one's opinion is taken seriously. For example we have Bach, who regularly claims to be a millionaire businessman employing x-number of people. Despite him not being able to keep his story straight, and being about as dumb and unreadable as LDSFATs, he sticks to his schtick so he can troll the forum with Trumpy observations about Leftists specifically and politics in general. If we knew his in real life identity, and that in fact he's a barely literate semi-employed old “F” ing Mormoron priesthood yokel, he would be cast in a different light.
MG regularly lies about his motivation for posting here and defines himself as an open-minded centrist ideally to give his schtick some legs when towing the party line and derailing thread after thread. Seeking catharsis for personal impotence is motivation enough for our TBM fanatic.
- Doc
Memes aside, I just wanted to highlight how on point your remarks are.
"If you consider what are called the virtues in mankind, you will find their growth is assisted by education and cultivation." -Xenophon of Athens
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_Res Ipsa
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Re: Does it make sense to lie on a board like this?
I think a better question might be: "Does it make sense to think about lying as making sense?"
There is pretty good evidence that people lie almost reflexively in social interactions. On the other hand, we tend to think about lying in terms of a conscious decision that involves weighing of pros and cons. Conscious decision making seems to require lots of brain resources, so we have all kinds of systems that allow the brain to control behavior below the level of consciousness. If most of the lies we tell in social situations don't involve the brain pausing to conduct an analysis of pros and cons and reach a reasoned decision, does the question asked in the OP really make sense at all?
in my opinion, 99% of accusations of lying that are made here (as well as on other message boards) don't represent a conscious effort to deceive. Accusations of lying result from simply making an incorrect statement, describing an event multiple times using slight changes in wording, mistakes in recollection, etc. The main function of accusations of lying here, in my opinion, is to derail the conversation.
There is pretty good evidence that people lie almost reflexively in social interactions. On the other hand, we tend to think about lying in terms of a conscious decision that involves weighing of pros and cons. Conscious decision making seems to require lots of brain resources, so we have all kinds of systems that allow the brain to control behavior below the level of consciousness. If most of the lies we tell in social situations don't involve the brain pausing to conduct an analysis of pros and cons and reach a reasoned decision, does the question asked in the OP really make sense at all?
in my opinion, 99% of accusations of lying that are made here (as well as on other message boards) don't represent a conscious effort to deceive. Accusations of lying result from simply making an incorrect statement, describing an event multiple times using slight changes in wording, mistakes in recollection, etc. The main function of accusations of lying here, in my opinion, is to derail the conversation.
“The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the dedicated communist, but people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction, true and false, no longer exists.”
― Hannah Arendt, The Origins of Totalitarianism, 1951
― Hannah Arendt, The Origins of Totalitarianism, 1951
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_Ceeboo
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Re: Does it make sense to lie on a board like this?
Hey Sanctorian! 
While I think there are a variety of potential reasons that this could (and in my opinion does) happen on a board like this - I think one of the more common reasons is rooted in - and born by - what one could possibly loose (rather than what one could possibly gain) by pushing the truth to the very outer edges.
A board like this - where religious beliefs are openly discussed and challenged on a daily basis - is soaked with some very heavy in real life scenarios that include various degrees of potential risk that involve some extremely valuable things to most people - Loved ones, family, friends, jobs, futures, communities, opportunities, etc.
Just my take.
Peace,
Ceeboo
Sanctorian wrote:
what could one possibly gain from lying on a board like this?
While I think there are a variety of potential reasons that this could (and in my opinion does) happen on a board like this - I think one of the more common reasons is rooted in - and born by - what one could possibly loose (rather than what one could possibly gain) by pushing the truth to the very outer edges.
A board like this - where religious beliefs are openly discussed and challenged on a daily basis - is soaked with some very heavy in real life scenarios that include various degrees of potential risk that involve some extremely valuable things to most people - Loved ones, family, friends, jobs, futures, communities, opportunities, etc.
Just my take.
Peace,
Ceeboo