Hales latest effort on polygamy

[_grindael]

Why was William Smith never exposed or disciplined by Joseph for his involvement here? He never was, but was protected by Joseph and later the 12 under Young (for a couple of years). Instead, they scratched out Williams name from some of this testimony and Joseph covered up his brothers involvement. Why?

[_grindael]

Perhaps their views changed from Nauvoo, but I doubt it.

Yeah, and John Taylor swore in 1850 that he wasn't practicing polygamy and he had like 5 wives. So how can you trust what liars say?

In a well-publicized debate between John Taylor and a Protestant minister in 1850, John Taylor denied that the Mormons practiced polygamy. At the time, he was the husband of multiple wives. (Solemn Covenant, p. 367) In a public discussion in Boulogne-Sur-Mer, France, he claimed, ". . . I shall content myself by reading our views of chastity and marriage, from a work published by us, containing some of the articles of our Faith. Doctrine and Covenants, page 330…Inasmuch as this Church of Jesus Christ has been reproached with the crime of fornication and polygamy, we declare that we believe that one man should have one wife, and one woman but one husband, except in case of death, when either is at liberty to marry again" (Tract published by John Taylor in 1850, p. 8; found in Orson Pratt's Works, 1851 edition. Found in The Changing World of Mormonism, pp. 261-262). MORMONTHINK

[_grindael]

he was accused of it by Sarah Pratt who is shown to be credible.

And that's where we will have to disagree.

Wanna debate me about Sarah Pratt?

[_grindael]

William Smith in the Wasp accused Bennett of embryo infanticide. Hardly definitive but not much of an accusation if it was an accepted practice.

And this is quite rich considering that William Smith was up to his eyeballs doing what Bennett and his brother were doing and was present when C. Higbee told Sarah Miller about Bennett being able to perform abortions. Funny how she doesn't mention William Smith objecting to it at all.

Joseph rewards his brother William by having Brigham Young perform a Spiritual Marriage to Mary Ann Covington in 1844.

Man, you can't make this crap up.

[_JLHPROF]

I've done it and yes, he did. Plenty of time. He would take women out to Benj. Johnson's in Ramus, for example. He had a farm. He had them in his Mansion (Malissa Lott), and she also said they had sex at her parents house. Smith was at Sylvia Lyon's house on many occasions. I can go on and on. He had the Red Brick Store, and he had the homes of Kimball and Young to go to. And he had lots of opportunity when Emma traveled out of town which she did on many occasions to visit family and go to St. Louis.

Was Bennett providing his services?

There is direct testimony from 1842 that Bennett was doing so.

Chancy L. Higbys teaching & conduct
were as follows. When he first came to my house ^soon^ after
the spical conferene this spring, darwin chase was with
him ^Chancy^ he comnced joking me about my getting married &
& [sic] wanted to know how long it had been for since my
husband died – and he soon removed his seat near
me & began his seducing insinations by saying it was
no harm to have sexual intercourse with women if they
would keep it to themselves. & continued to urge me to
yield to his desires, & urged me vehemently. & said he &
Joseph were Good friends & he teaches me this doctrine.
& allows me such privilgs & there is no harm in
it & Joseph Smith says so.– I told him I did not believe
it, & had heard no such teching frm Joseph. Nor frm the stand
but that it was wicked to commit adultry, &c. Chauncy said
that did not mean Single women, but Married women:
& continued to press his instructions & arguments until after
dark, & until I was inclined to believe, for he called God
to witness of the truth, & was so solemn and confident, I
yielded to his temptations, having received the stronget assure
from him that Joseph app[r]ovd it & would uphold me in it. [p. 2:]
He also told me that many others were following the same
coure of conduct As I still had some doubts near
the close of our interview I <agn> suggested my fear that I
had done wrong & should loose the confidence of the brthrn
when he assurd me that it was right & he would bring
a witness a witness to confirm what he had taught.
When he came again William Smith came with him
& told me that the doctrine which Chancy Higby had taught
me was true. & that Joseph believd the doctrine. I still
had doubts & replied that I had understood that Higby had
had [sic] recently been baptized & that Joseph when he confirmd him
told him to quit all his iniquitous practices. Chauncy
Said it was not for such things things that he was
baptized for <chauncy exited from the room> & William Smith said that he would take
all the sin to himself. – for there was no sin in
it. before Chauny left the house he said do you
think I would be baptized for such a thing & then go
into it so soon again. Chauncy Higby said that it
would never be known. I told him that it might be told in
bringing forth [pregnancy]. Chauny said there was no Danger <& that> Dr Bennt
understood it & would come & take it away if there was any
thing. Sarah Miller

So you believe Joseph was having his plural wives get abortions?

[_grindael]

So you believe Joseph was having his plural wives get abortions?

I only know that the possibility that he was, is evident.

[_SuperDell]

One reason given for the practice was "to raise seed".

Monogamous marriages averaged more kids per wife than polygamous marriages.

God can't count?

[_Themis]

he was accused of it by Sarah Pratt who is shown to be credible.

And that's where we will have to disagree.

The ones accusing her were the ones trying to hide their activities from the world.

[_aussieguy55]

A woman is more likely to fall pregnant during her time of ovulation. Did they know about this in Nauvoo? You have several alternatives. 1. Smith was not having sex which is contrary to some of the testimony. 2. They were practicing the rhythm method (did they know about that) 3 Bennett or others were performing abortions. 4 Smith's sperm was not up to scratch.

[_moksha]

So is the current argument that the Nauvoo Mormons were more swingers and that the latter-day Utah Mormons got cohabitable plural marriage off the ground?