In an interview with Daniel C. Peterson of Interpreter Foundation, Laura Hales responded to the question of why the church has not been forthright about teaching that Joseph Smith was a polygamist. Her answer is a stunner. It's why I cannot trust what the church says and am always now asking "But what else are they hiding?" She is right about one thing, "things are changing" but it's not due to revelation from a loving God who cares, or because the church loves truth. It's because the church is being forced to be honest finally, due to world wide information they no longer can control. In other words, its ***still*** propaganda, but with their pants down now.......
Laura Hales:
Well, there was an attitude among some of the Brethren, that it was better to keep some aspects of our prophets’ lives private. We know this because recent interviews have come forth. One was an interview with Ronald Walker. He said that when Leonard Arrington was writing his biography on Brigham Young, he was asked by one of the Brethren to take out all references to polygamy. They did actually want to protect the prophets. In the case of Brigham Young, I don’t personally see the necessity of that because the whole world knows that Brigham Young was a polygamist because by the time he practiced polygamy, the eastern press got a hold of it.
I’ll mention that, even though most of us didn’t know that Joseph Smith was a polygamist, and we did know that Brigham Young was a polygamist, we didn’t get that knowledge from church curriculum. We got that from culture, so some people want to put those two in a different category. “Okay. We were told about Brigham Young, but we weren’t told about Joseph.” We weren’t told about either. They were silent on both. But we know it was practiced. So I can’t answer, “Why” questions very well, but I can say that things are changing.:
Say that again Laura: "most of us didn’t know that Joseph Smith was a polygamist".
Say what?
Why, I've heard DCP intone many times that we who were LDS didn't know this or that about early church history because of our laziness, that we did not take the initiative when we were children--I guess even before age 8 when they dunked us. It's our own, individual fault and not that of the LDS church or culture.
And this ballsy Laura said this to DCP himself? Please, Philo Sofee, do tell that DCP then called Laura on the carpet for her individual dereliction? Please, please, do tell me. After all, DCP would not be being duplicitous and remaining silent when TBM Laura says such after the many times he's called apostates on the carpet for mentioning just the same thing, and trying to make the apostate feel like some kind of a defective unit.
How could it be that so many--yea, even most of us--had the wrong impression? Could it be, no, please say it ain't so, that it was systematic, institutional whitewashing and deception? That's not milk before meat, Ma'am. That's downright bureaucratic lying--for the Lord, no less.
I've said it before, and I'll say it again: DCP is a piece of crap.
It's all over the Journal of Discourses, etc. that Joseph was a polygamist. Why can't she be honest about this. They were obfuscating it for PR reasons, in the 20th century. That is the same as LYING. They were telling people not to read the Journals, etc., but only stay on the correlated material. They created this monster because they had no idea that the internet was coming. Pretty stupid prophets.
Yeah, protect the prophets. What a load of crap. And that's the same kind of mentality that the polygamists used, that they were subjecting women to that horror to "protect" them from the evils of prostitution.
Riding on a speeding train; trapped inside a revolving door; Lost in the riddle of a quatrain; Stuck in an elevator between floors. One focal point in a random world can change your direction: One step where events converge may alter your perception.
I read through about half of it and it confirms what I already know... the Hales are consummate liars. Polygamy was absolutely REQUIRED for exaltation. They are simply lying through their teeth when they deny this. It's just disgusting. It's the same ol' apologist trash, it was only their "opinions". But when they quote mine and find something that they think supports their made up narrative, well, that's the damned word of the Lord.
Riding on a speeding train; trapped inside a revolving door; Lost in the riddle of a quatrain; Stuck in an elevator between floors. One focal point in a random world can change your direction: One step where events converge may alter your perception.
I love how they are desperately trying to make what Smith did with 14 year olds seem ok. And then there is this,
They thought the end was coming fairly soon, the ideas form these family units, form these links that will continue into the eternities. So, it’s not just plural marriage. It’s linking up whole families with people with sealed to Brigham Young, and Wilfred Woodruff, and so on. We don’t do those things anymore. Wilford Woodruff received a revelation that leads to the founding of the genealogical society saying, “No, you guys have got it wrong. You’re supposed to be sealed to your family back as far as you can go.” But once you understand that and their conception, it actually makes sense. It’s not as crazy as it may seem.
It is crazy. Have a woman married to another man, many of them faithful Mormons and then have them build a life here together, love each other and then when they die they go to another man?
That is bat crap crazy and NOTHING they can say, will make it acceptable or explain it as rational. Yeah, PRIVILEGED FAMILIES are forever, not the poor suckers at the whim of self aggrandizing "prophets".
Riding on a speeding train; trapped inside a revolving door; Lost in the riddle of a quatrain; Stuck in an elevator between floors. One focal point in a random world can change your direction: One step where events converge may alter your perception.
Philo Sofee wrote:In an interview with Daniel C. Peterson of Interpreter Foundation, Laura Hales responded to the question of why the church has not been forthright about teaching that Joseph Smith was a polygamist. Her answer is a stunner. It's why I cannot trust what the church says and am always now asking "But what else are they hiding?" She is right about one thing, "things are changing" but it's not due to revelation from a loving God who cares, or because the church loves truth. It's because the church is being forced to be honest finally, due to world wide information they no longer can control. In other words, its ***still*** propaganda, but with their pants down now.......
Laura Hales:
Well, there was an attitude among some of the Brethren, that it was better to keep some aspects of our prophets’ lives private. We know this because recent interviews have come forth. One was an interview with Ronald Walker. He said that when Leonard Arrington was writing his biography on Brigham Young, he was asked by one of the Brethren to take out all references to polygamy. They did actually want to protect the prophets. In the case of Brigham Young, I don’t personally see the necessity of that because the whole world knows that Brigham Young was a polygamist because by the time he practiced polygamy, the eastern press got a hold of it.
I’ll mention that, even though most of us didn’t know that Joseph Smith was a polygamist, and we did know that Brigham Young was a polygamist, we didn’t get that knowledge from church curriculum. We got that from culture, so some people want to put those two in a different category. “Okay. We were told about Brigham Young, but we weren’t told about Joseph.” We weren’t told about either. They were silent on both. But we know it was practiced. So I can’t answer, “Why” questions very well, but I can say that things are changing.:
Only telling part of the truth...hmmm...I recall the Church putting out some guidance on what to call that.
Lying is intentionally deceiving others. Bearing false witness is one form of lying. The Lord gave this commandment to the children of Israel: “Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour” (Exodus 20:16). Jesus also taught this when He was on earth (see Matthew 19:18). There are many other forms of lying. When we speak untruths, we are guilty of lying. We can also intentionally deceive others by a gesture or a look, by silence, or by telling only part of the truth. Whenever we lead people in any way to believe something that is not true, we are not being honest.
Laura is calling the Brethren 'liars' and DCP is okay wth that.
“When we are confronted with evidence that challenges our deeply held beliefs we are more likely to reframe the evidence than we are to alter our beliefs. We simply invent new reasons, new justifications, new explanations. Sometimes we ignore the evidence altogether.” (Mathew Syed 'Black Box Thinking')
I think DCP and the Hales are acheiving what they aim to do.
I think they want to reinforce the idea in the general TBM population that "smarter people than the average TBM knows xyz about problematic church history, and still believes". Also, they want to provide apologetic bulletpoints for the faithful in vicinity of those experiencing a crisis of faith, so that the issues can be brushed off. I also think that they might aspire to hold the thankful gaze of the brethren, and maby hope for a second anointing as a reward.
Truth left the building a long time ago. It is painful to hear them discuss how Joseph Smith marrying a 14 year old isn't that bad, and try to put the blame of Helens father, and that Joseph just complied with the fathers wishes.
Speculative and apologetic bullcrap. I would like to hear them apologizing for Warren Jeffs while they are at it.
Last edited by Guest on Sat May 27, 2017 6:45 am, edited 1 time in total.
About Joseph Smith.. How do you think his persona was influenced by being the storyteller since childhood? Mastering the art of going pale, changing his voice, and mesmerizing his audience.. How do you think he was influenced by keeping secrets and lying for his wife and the church members for decades?
Philo Sofee wrote:In an interview with Daniel C. Peterson of Interpreter Foundation, Laura Hales responded to the question of why the church has not been forthright about teaching that Joseph Smith was a polygamist. Her answer is a stunner. It's why I cannot trust what the church says and am always now asking "But what else are they hiding?" She is right about one thing, "things are changing" but it's not due to revelation from a loving God who cares, or because the church loves truth. It's because the church is being forced to be honest finally, due to world wide information they no longer can control. In other words, its ***still*** propaganda, but with their pants down now.......
Laura Hales:
Well, there was an attitude among some of the Brethren, that it was better to keep some aspects of our prophets’ lives private. We know this because recent interviews have come forth. One was an interview with Ronald Walker. He said that when Leonard Arrington was writing his biography on Brigham Young, he was asked by one of the Brethren to take out all references to polygamy. They did actually want to protect the prophets. In the case of Brigham Young, I don’t personally see the necessity of that because the whole world knows that Brigham Young was a polygamist because by the time he practiced polygamy, the eastern press got a hold of it.
I’ll mention that, even though most of us didn’t know that Joseph Smith was a polygamist, and we did know that Brigham Young was a polygamist, we didn’t get that knowledge from church curriculum. We got that from culture, so some people want to put those two in a different category. “Okay. We were told about Brigham Young, but we weren’t told about Joseph.” We weren’t told about either. They were silent on both. But we know it was practiced. So I can’t answer, “Why” questions very well, but I can say that things are changing.:
Frankly this admission is so very frustrating...When someone first realizes that the story we were spoonfed our entire time within the church won't sync with reality and we seek answers the official apologetic trick is to turn this realization on the person who is just discovering that things don't sync and blame them suggesting that they were somehow stupid and that the truth had been there all along and that the church had never hid anything. This is "Gaslighting" and has the effect of making the newly enlightened one think they are crazy. Well “F” them for doing this and “F” hales and her ilk for finally fessing up to the truth. What has changed now that they feel the need to come clean?
"...The official doctrine of the LDS Church is a Global Flood" - BCSpace
"...What many people call sin is not sin." - Joseph Smith
"Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away" - Phillip K. Dick
“The meaning of life is that it ends" - Franz Kafka
grindael wrote:I love how they are desperately trying to make what Smith did with 14 year olds seem ok. And then there is this,
Right. They attempt to get it into the "OKAY" category, not a category that is good or excellent that you would expect a prophet of God to occupy. Look how weak their argument is:
1. "They thought the end was coming fairly soon". They THOUGHT. They did a lot of stupid thinking.
2. "We don’t do those things anymore". HELL no, they don't do those things anymore! And why is that? Embarrassing Mormon history not to be repeated.
3. "It’s not as crazy as it may seem". Not as crazy? Nonetheless, it IS crazy and even more so than it seems! Crazy crazy Mormonism!
