Intellectually Troubled Mormonism and Logic

[_tapirrider]

scientific theories are not the same as scientific facts.

It is a scientific fact that the universe is expanding.

True. How does that falsify Mormonism, the Book of Mormon, or, for that matter, Christianity or the Bible?

I don't care about that. I'm just glad that you acknowledge the fact that the universe is expanding. What you might try do with that fact is entirely up to you but the truth of the expansion will stand regardless of one's own beliefs.

[_Shulem]

The cosmic microwave background (CMB) is a fact. It's 160 - 200 GHz electromagnetic field warms you every time you go outdoors, and most probably gets to you most places indoors as well.

The Second Law of Thermodynamics is not a theory - it's, well you know - a Law.

Black holes are facts. We have a big one that helps our galaxy operate in an orderly fashion.

Before you make another asinine comment regarding something of which you are completely ignorant, do some reading in appropriate books - something besides a 19th century collection of tall tales.

It gives me pleasure to learn about these things in documentaries on Netflix. Popular scientists educate us about amazing things of our universe. These things are not contained in the writings of Mormon scripture because the authors were wholly ignorant. They based their knowledge and understanding on what they could see and interpret with their naked eyes. Mormon scripture has absolutely nothing to offer in understanding the universe. Joseph Smith's understanding of the universe and science was no better than that of a caveman. The inspiration he got from his Ghost was no better either. Just look at his Explanations of the Facsimiles and it's obvious the Mormon revelations are a total fraud. Especially, when one can actually read Egyptian for themselves!

[_zerinus]

scientific theories are not the same as scientific facts.

It is a scientific fact that the universe is expanding.

True. How does that falsify Mormonism, the Book of Mormon, or, for that matter, Christianity or the Bible?

I don't care about that. I'm just glad that you acknowledge the fact that the universe is expanding. What you might try do with that fact is entirely up to you but the truth of the expansion will stand regardless of one's own beliefs.

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[Guest]

It is a scientific fact that the universe is expanding.

True. How does that falsify Mormonism, the Book of Mormon, or, for that matter, Christianity or the Bible?

There you go again. No clue what you are talking about. None whatsoever.

The laws of physics on the macro scale are time independent. At a very simplistic level, if we wish to know how the universe started, we can just run time backwards and see what happens - see whether or not we get to an endpoint.

If the universe is now expanding (and it is not only expanding, but doing so at an increasing rate), in reverse time it will contract. Its total entropy will slowly decrease to a point where it is minimum - an endpoint - and there you are. Zero entropy means no states to be occupied. It means no matter, no space, and no time.

Call it what you will, but it is how this universe got started. Whether the curvature of the universe turns out to be positive, negative or flat, the standard cosmological model, which includes the big bang singularity, is the best explanation for all of the observations mentioned above when the laws of physics are properly applied.

[_Philo Sofee]

Zerinus
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You state there are no facts or laws in science, its all just theory (with total ignorance that theory is well established fact, then when Tapirrider shows you the fact that the universe is expanding you agree, and now that puzzles you?

It is a fact that you don't grasp science very well, we have an enormous amount of witnesses here to demonstrate that. We can scientifically establish that your science knowledge is woefully inadequate. That will be a fact, not a theory. In fact, we could take your statements and share them with the scientists at BYU (just to give your Mormon thinking a little benefit of the doubt) and they would be able to establish your cognitive skills in science is seriously lacking. It looks to me like there are all kinds of facts out there instead of mere guesswork (your erroneous imagining that is all a theory is)...... In other words, once again, you are wrong. Why I am even discussing this with you is beyond me, I have so much better ways of spending my time sharing knowledge with those who also share knowledge back with me in this wonderful joint....... consider yourself blessed I took this amount of time out of my life to attempt the impossible with you.

[_Shulem]

It is a fact that you don't grasp science very well, we have an enormous amount of witnesses here to demonstrate that. We can scientifically establish that your science knowledge is woefully inadequate.

Zerinus's statements about science in the defense of his primitive religious beliefs make me almost cringe. Likewise, his comments he has made in defense of the Explanations of Facsimile No. 3 have made me literally sick. Never in the history of all my conversations with anyone on this subject have I heard such gross contradiction and denial. That is why I don't believe he is serious about it and is just trying to kick the beehive and behave as the village troll. No one could possibly be that stupid and maintain a straight face. He's a troll.

[_Philo Sofee]

I tend to agree with you Shulem, except for the fact that he has been caught multitudinous times with some real gaffes about general knowledge of science, not to mention Mormonism and its history. It makes ya wonder don't it?!

[_Tator]

I tend to agree with you Shulem, except for the fact that he has been caught multitudinous times with some real gaffes about general knowledge of science, not to mention Mormonism and its history. It makes ya wonder don't it?!

Do you mean it is hard to fake stupidity?

[_Philo Sofee]

I tend to agree with you Shulem, except for the fact that he has been caught multitudinous times with some real gaffes about general knowledge of science, not to mention Mormonism and its history. It makes ya wonder don't it?!

Do you mean it is hard to fake stupidity?

For Zerinus, certainly..... And there are just so many terrific books he could actually learn something from were he willing. Or is he just unable? Instead he's stuck back in the ancient world of Mesoamericanites...