Lawyer Friend Leaves Church--Shelf Nuked

[_consiglieri]

My attorney-Mormon friend just left the LDS Church.

We have spoken occasionally over the past year about issues related to Mormonism. He is very well informed and has definitely put in the effort to learn about his faith.

Almost nothing I said to him was news, but he would laugh at it while laughing at the church to which he has belonged since he was a kid.

Only recently he told me that he knew he was laughing at this stuff (I think it was the “Wrong Roads” podcast we were discussing) but he knew there a time was coming when he would actually have to deal with this stuff rather than just laughing at it. When we spoke, he estimated that would be several years down the road.

Looks like several years came faster than he thought.

Many things have bothered him over the years. He has loaded his shelf pretty high. It appears that one of the things he didn’t like was polygamy and 14-year old girls. For some reason, it bothered him that not only did Joseph Smith marry 14-year olds, but that this practice extended up through Lorenzo Snow.

He was in a church class a few weeks back and the subject of Lorenzo Snow going down to St. George to preach tithing came up; and that Lorenzo Snow went down there with his wife or something, like it was a strong nuclear family; and the only thing my friend could think was wondering whether he went down there with his the girl he married when she was 14.

I didn’t know about this until this morning, though, when I called him back after receiving a text from him Saturday.

“We need to talk sometime. I’m on date night tonight, but I read the Robert Ritner response to the church essay on the Book of Abraham and my shelf was nuked.”

I texted him back immediately, “I am here for you. Let me know when is a good time. Everything will be ok. Different. But ok.”

He texted back, “That warms my heart. Thanks.”

So this morning (Tuesday) I called him and we talked for about a half hour. He read the Ritner article Thursday and found that the Book of Abraham is a complete “fraud,” as he put it. He learned about the Kirtland Egyptian Papers and how the Book of Abraham is quite apparently an attempted translation from the papyri fragments that the church possesses. He found out that John Gee and the essay are all wet when they try to argue that the Book of Abraham could be from a different part of the scroll that wasn’t recovered.

He then got upset that the church doesn’t say this, but instead tries to talk all around the issue so the member doesn’t know. It wasn’t until he read the Ritner piece that he was aware of this issue. Of course, the essay doesn’t really talk about the KEP much!

My friend is/was the elders’ quorum president, and he didn’t go to church Sunday and sent his bishop an email explaining that he is resigning his position and won’t be coming to church anymore. He sent a one-sentence email to his stake president, as well, who is a new stake president whom he doesn’t know very well, as the SP was just called, though he lives in his ward.

This is likely to raise a host of issues, as my friend’s parents and in-laws (and wife and four kids) are all members. He thinks his siblings will be okay with it. His kids hate church already. His wife is being pretty good about it so far.

I spent most of the time listening.

One of his main problems is that the church will not allow somebody like him “space” to hold the views he holds (about homosexuality, etc.) and still be accepted as a full member of the church.

He likened it to a box that he was shut in and he was allowed no further growth. He felt some time ago that he had “plateaued” and that there was no further spiritual growth for him in the LDS church.

At the end of our conversation, I told him I wanted him to know two things: 1. He is doing the right thing for himself. He will find there is a big, beautiful world out there and that he will be able to grow exponentially all of a sudden. 2. I am there for him, and will be happy to listen more to anything he has to say and, if he is interested, I can share some of my stories that have led me to where I am in my life.

He hasn’t jettisoned Jesus, but wants to take his testimony of Jesus to maybe another church and see what happens. He doesn’t know where this will lead, but feels very much at peace with what he has done. He has never felt so right about doing anything in his life.

This is exactly what is happening all over this church. The very best and the very brightest Mormons are leaving. This is just one more snapshot to add to the scrapbook.

[_Tator]

Consiglieri you are a great friend glad he has you.

[_Always Changing]

My biggest concern is that if the best and brightest are leaving, what influence will this have on what remains? Scary. On the other hand, there might be a de-evolution to such a point that legal action can be taken which will not impact religious liberty as a whole.

[_Doctor CamNC4Me]

My biggest concern is that if the best and brightest are leaving, what influence will this have on what remains? Scary. On the other hand, there might be a de-evolution to such a point that legal action can be taken which will not impact religious liberty as a whole.

I don't know what you mean with the last sentence, but to address your first point the Church will just remain a nepotistic real estate venture. It'll be fine as it eventually morphs into the CoC.

- Doc

[_Always Changing]

That is reassuring. Second sentence meant to say that the politically far right fundamentalist faction would take over. This https://www.academia.edu/30155332/When_ ... evisionism presents the more positive picture that you state.

[_zerinus]

My attorney-Mormon friend just left the LDS Church.

[SNIP!]

This is exactly what is happening all over this church. The very best and the very brightest Mormons are leaving. This is just one more snapshot to add to the scrapbook.

“The Book of Mormon is true.” That is the message I would like you to give him from me.

[_Shulem]

“The Book of Mormon is true.” That is the message I would like you to give him from me.

The Book of Mormon is fiction -- writings of Joseph Smith and his companions. It is no more true than the Explanations of Facsimile No. 3. There is no archeology that can save the Book of Mormon any more than there is any Egyptology that can save the Explanations of Facsimile No. 3

All fiction. All lies. I know it.

[_JLHPROF]

The Book of Mormon is fiction -- writings of Joseph Smith and his companions. It is no more true than the Explanations of Facsimile No. 3. There is no archeology that can save the Book of Mormon any more than there is any Egyptology that can save the Explanations of Facsimile No. 3

All fiction. All lies. I know it.

Only if you consider historical origin the determining factor in truthfulness.
If a fictional work states that George Washington was the first President, that is true, regardless of how it was written.

I happen to believe that the historicity of the Book of Mormon and Book of Abraham is real.
But I don't know that it is provable by any academic means. So if calling it fiction makes people feel better they can do that.
None of that has any bearing on the truthfulness of the teachings and principles contained within.

[_Shulem]

Only if you consider historical origin the determining factor in truthfulness.
If a fictional work states that George Washington was the first President, that is true, regardless of how it was written.

I happen to believe that the historicity of the Book of Mormon and Book of Abraham is real.
But I don't know that it is provable by any academic means. So if calling it fiction makes people feel better they can do that.
None of that has any bearing on the truthfulness of the teachings and principles contained within.

There is no truth to any of the Explanations of Facsimile No. 3. Egyptology proved Joseph Smith made that stuff up -- out of his limited imagination of all things Egyptian. The principles or teachings of the Facsimile are wrong. They are not Egyptian. The original iconography and writing are of a complete different genre than what Joseph Smith was attempting to peddle. And yet (according to the evidence and many testimonies on the subject) Joseph Smith wanted his followers to believe he was revealing the original historical origin. Joseph Smith's work was a complete fraud.

Don't be so gullible. Face the writing. Face the facts and learn to be honest. You have a hard heart -- hardened by the evil spells of Mormonism. Quit selling your soul to Joseph Smith. He lied to you.

[_Shulem]

I happen to believe that the historicity of the Book of Mormon and Book of Abraham is real.
But I don't know that it is provable by any academic means.

It's been proven false by academic means. It's called being able to read the ancient Egyptian language. Can you read?

Tell me the name of the king written in the writing of Facsimile No. 3 as Joseph Smith claimed. Please, tell me the king' name. Do be academic.