Shulem wrote:The Book of Mormon is fiction -- writings of Joseph Smith and his companions. It is no more true than the Explanations of Facsimile No. 3. There is no archeology that can save the Book of Mormon any more than there is any Egyptology that can save the Explanations of Facsimile No. 3
All fiction. All lies. I know it.
Only if you consider historical origin the determining factor in truthfulness. If a fictional work states that George Washington was the first President, that is true, regardless of how it was written.
I happen to believe that the historicity of the Book of Mormon and Book of Abraham is real. But I don't know that it is provable by any academic means.
It's not. But thanks for the laugh.
jlh wrote:So if calling it fiction makes people feel better they can do that. None of that has any bearing on the truthfulness of the teachings and principles contained within.
Not according to the leaders of the lds church. I think the CoC agrees with you, though.
To the OP: Consiglieri, i wish your friend all the best as he works though this!
JLHPROF wrote: So if calling it fiction makes people feel better they can do that.
The Explanations of Facsimile No. 3 are pure fiction. Does that make you feel better knowing it's fiction? Perhaps you might feel comforted if you called it inspired fiction. It's fiction, nonetheless. Joseph Smith didn't know jack about Egyptology. Every single thing he said about Facsimile No. 3 is 100% false.
JLHPROF wrote:But I don't know that it is provable by any academic means.
I don't believe you really mean that. Are you hoping for some unseen knowledge yet to be discovered that can somehow vindicate the Explanations of Facsimile No. 3? Forget it! Basic academics in this matter is as sure as mathematics.
Just read the writing. Understand the Vignette. Understand what it all meant to the ancient artist who created it and wrote the spell. Then, maybe, just maybe, you can journey into a life a genuine honesty.
Shulem wrote:The Book of Mormon is fiction -- writings of Joseph Smith and his companions. It is no more true than the Explanations of Facsimile No. 3. There is no archeology that can save the Book of Mormon any more than there is any Egyptology that can save the Explanations of Facsimile No. 3
All fiction. All lies. I know it.
Only if you consider historical origin the determining factor in truthfulness. If a fictional work states that George Washington was the first President, that is true, regardless of how it was written.
I happen to believe that the historicity of the Book of Mormon and Book of Abraham is real. But I don't know that it is provable by any academic means. So if calling it fiction makes people feel better they can do that. None of that has any bearing on the truthfulness of the teachings and principles contained within.
This is where we disagree....the truthfulness of the book IS defendant on it being an actual historical text having been abridged by an actual human being that lived in the America's circa 421 AD named Mormon. If Mormon never existed then the book and all of its claims are just wishful thinking and false promises. That the claimed Nephite civilization never left any evidence of its existence lessens the probability that it ever existed.
"...The official doctrine of the LDS Church is a Global Flood" - BCSpace
"...What many people call sin is not sin." - Joseph Smith
"Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away" - Phillip K. Dick
“The meaning of life is that it ends" - Franz Kafka
JLHPROF wrote:Only if you consider historical origin the determining factor in truthfulness. If a fictional work states that George Washington was the first President, that is true, regardless of how it was written.
So in other words, "Just because he made it up doesn't mean it isn't true?"
"Finally, for your rather strange idea that miracles are somehow linked to the amount of gay sexual gratification that is taking place would require that primitive Christianity was launched by gay sex, would it not?"
Inspired fiction=no Moroni=Joseph Smith lied about angelic visits or the Mormon God is Loki in disguise.
Seriously if the Book of Mormon is not historical, priesthood power is a hoax, it is as simple at that.
"Any over-ritualized religion since the dawn of time can make its priests say yes, we know, it is rotten, and hard luck, but just do as we say, keep at the ritual, stick it out, give us your money and you'll end up with the angels in heaven for evermore."
Dr. Shades wrote:So in other words, "Just because he made it up doesn't mean it isn't true?"
Trent Harris is a true prophet.
I know that Frodo is the one true Ringbearer. In the name of Eru Iluvatar, amen. The Holy Ghost told me that JRR found some old runic manuscripts and translated them by the power of a Palantir given him by a wizard. Prove me wrong. Show me the ruins of Zarahemla and I'll show you the ruins of Gondor.
"your reasoning that children should be experimented upon to justify a political agenda..is tantamount to the Nazi justification for experimenting on human beings."-SUBgenius on gay parents "I've stated over and over again on this forum and fully accept that I'm a bigot..." - ldsfaqs
The bottom line is this: Having faith in religious claims coupled with fuzzy warm feelings (ghost like spirit) that make one excited about believing those things is pretty much the only foundation in which one can build their testimony. It's an imaginary foundation based on faith alone, i.e., the Book of Mormon is historical and Joseph Smith translated the writing on Facsimile No. 3 in the manner the Lord intended. But no proof! Faith is absent of proof. They cannot abide together.
Faith is the single most important ingredient that leads to religious brainwashing. For that matter, all Mormons are brainwashed to a certain extent and those who fervently defend the Explanations of Facsimile No. 3 or the historicity of the Book of Mormon are dishonest people.
Faith is the real enemy. One must rid themselves of their misguided faith and accept proofs established by basic laws that govern our universe which can be measured and seen with the eyes.
It's not. But thanks for the laugh. 
