Karen Armstrong's Comments on Richard Dawkins

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_Philo Sofee
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Karen Armstrong's Comments on Richard Dawkins

Post by _Philo Sofee »

Found this on some site or another of a Mormon wishing to correlate science and religion. This is an interesting comment from Karen Armstrong concerning the God Dawkins demolishes in his book "The God Delusion."

For Dawkins, religious faith rests on the idea that "there exists a superhuman, supernatural intelligence, who deliberately designed and created the universe and everything in it." Having set up this definition of God as Supernatural Designer, Dawkins only has to point out that there is in fact no design in nature in order to demolish it. But he is mistaken to assume that this is "the way people have generally understood the term" God. He is also wrong to claim that God is a scientific hypothesis, that is, a conceptual framework for bringing intelligibility to a series of experiments and observations. It was only in the modern period that theologians started to treat God as a scientific explanation and in the process produced an idolatrous God concept.


Well, she has a point, no? Most people through the ages have not thought God was a human figured man. Perhaps some groups of early Jews and Christians did in the West, but that hardly accounts for the vast array of humans world wide and their beliefs.
I don't think she quite grasps why Dawkins says God is a scientific hypothesis however. The way Christianity claims God works miracles in the empirical world means God is in the scientific arena, and as such, is a testable hypothesis. It is the claim concerning God that Dawkins is saying can and ought to be tested, and I agree with that. True Gould wanted to separate the two "magisteria" and it is the claims of Christianity that refuses to do so.
I think Armstrong isn't quite correct again when she notes it is only in our modern age that God became a scientific explanation. True, back then he was described as a spiritual phenomena, but he was claimed to have been involved in the physical world, therefore that is testable.

Anyway, just using this message board as a personal blog for the time being.
Dr CamNC4Me
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_huckelberry
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Re: Karen Armstrong's Comments on Richard Dawkins

Post by _huckelberry »

Philo Sofee wrote:I think Armstrong isn't quite correct again when she notes it is only in our modern age that God became a scientific explanation. True, back then he was described as a spiritual phenomena, but he was claimed to have been involved in the physical world, therefore that is testable.

Anyway, just using this message board as a personal blog for the time being.


Philo, I am unsure what sort of testable you are thinking of. Christianity believes God interacts with the world, I doubt Armstrong is rejecting that. Christianity believes God raised Jesus from the dead. How do you propose to test that?
_SteelHead
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Re: Karen Armstrong's Comments on Richard Dawkins

Post by _SteelHead »

Burden shifting. It is incumbent upon the Christian to demonstrate zombie Jesus. The Bible is not a primary source, so it doesn't serve as evidence.
It is better to be a warrior in a garden, than a gardener at war.

Some of us, on the other hand, actually prefer a religion that includes some type of correlation with reality.
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_Philo Sofee
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Re: Karen Armstrong's Comments on Richard Dawkins

Post by _Philo Sofee »

huckelberry wrote:
Philo Sofee wrote:I think Armstrong isn't quite correct again when she notes it is only in our modern age that God became a scientific explanation. True, back then he was described as a spiritual phenomena, but he was claimed to have been involved in the physical world, therefore that is testable.

Anyway, just using this message board as a personal blog for the time being.


Philo, I am unsure what sort of testable you are thinking of. Christianity believes God interacts with the world, I doubt Armstrong is rejecting that. Christianity believes God raised Jesus from the dead. How do you propose to test that?


Simple statistics shows that there have been legitimately known 0 out of over 100,000,000,000 people resurrected. It is impossible so far as any real empirical evidence or biological knowledge that we know today, therefore we are entirely justified in saying that claim fails the test. There has never been anyone who has been dead for 3 days come back to life, even with our vastly superior medical technology we have over the New Testament Jews of that day. The probability is so utterly minuscule and vanishingly small that it is 1 in quadrillions against. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.
Dr CamNC4Me
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_Jersey Girl
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Re: Karen Armstrong's Comments on Richard Dawkins

Post by _Jersey Girl »

Have you read her book, A History of God?
Failure is not falling down but refusing to get up.
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_Philo Sofee
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Re: Karen Armstrong's Comments on Richard Dawkins

Post by _Philo Sofee »

Jersey Girl wrote:Have you read her book, A History of God?


Yes, it is really quite a good book....
Dr CamNC4Me
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Re: Karen Armstrong's Comments on Richard Dawkins

Post by _Jersey Girl »

Philo Sofee wrote:
Jersey Girl wrote:Have you read her book, A History of God?


Yes, it is really quite a good book....


I thought so...
Failure is not falling down but refusing to get up.
Chinese Proverb
_Philo Sofee
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Re: Karen Armstrong's Comments on Richard Dawkins

Post by _Philo Sofee »

Have you read her book, A History of God?

Yes, it is really quite a good book....

I thought so...

Don't get me wrong, I am NOT dissin the good woman..... I just think she might be misunderstanding Dawkins stance. And I will say, he was rather sloppy in his book "The God Delusion." That could have been written so much MORE effectively. However, it did it's job, it got people talking about the subject.

Good Lawd, I am filling up the message boards tonight! I apologize. I guess I'm in the mood to type......
Dr CamNC4Me
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_huckelberry
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Re: Karen Armstrong's Comments on Richard Dawkins

Post by _huckelberry »

Philo, I hope you realize that the knowledge that people do not come popping up out of graves is not some new scientific insight. People have known that for an awful long time now. That is why people view Jesus resurrection as miraculous. If it normally happened every so often people would have shrugged their shoulders when Jesus was reported as risen.

Is it not normal to think of miracle in connection with an event which contradicts natural processes?

I do not doubt your ability to disbelieve the story. I did express doubt about your ability to scientifically test the event.
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Re: Karen Armstrong's Comments on Richard Dawkins

Post by _SteelHead »

Huckelberry, can you please scientifically disprove that there is a pink invisible dragon living in my garage.
It is better to be a warrior in a garden, than a gardener at war.

Some of us, on the other hand, actually prefer a religion that includes some type of correlation with reality.
~Bill Hamblin
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