Spying for the Lord

[_consiglieri]

I am trying to assemble material for a future podcast on the Strengthening Church Members Committee and how it acts within the structure of the LDS Church.

I have put together some initial thoughts on the subject and wanted to know if anybody has additional examples or ideas.

Here is what I have so far:

1. Leak of the existence of the SCMC via the 1991 Glenn Pace memo to the brethren re: the epidemic of Satanic ritualized abuse in Utah.

2. Response that it is only a “newspaper clipping” service.

3. September 6 disciplinary proceedings in which it came out that Elder Packer directed the stake president of Avraham Gileadi to discipline him; Steve Benson interviewed Elder Oaks about this and Elder Oaks admitted it, saying it was hard to stage manage a grizzly bear.

4. More recent disciplinary actions in which the church, through its spokespeople, deny any involvement in the proceedings, claiming they are merely local actions initiated locally.

5. D. Michael Quinn’s story of how his stake president told him that an area seventy initiated the action and told him what to do and that the area seventy also told the stake president that the stake president was not to mention any involvement from higher up, and that it was supposed to look like the proceeding was the idea of the stake president; how the stake president balked at the idea and told D. Michael Quinn about it.

6. Again with more recent disciplinary hearings, it appears that on occasion, local leaders making the accusations and bringing the actions seem unfamiliar with the evidence they are using against the member, suggesting that the information is not something they found on their own but are being fed by another, and possibly higher, source. (Any other stories along these lines would be helpful.)

7. The BBC interview with Elder Holland in which the existence of the SCMC is brought up by the interviewer and initially denied, but subsequently admitted; and Elder Holland seems somewhat agitated in having to talk about it.

8. John Lynch interview in January of 2016 in which he admits to being contacted by the church to help gather information on dissident voices and helping them out by sending along information.

Any help you can give would be greatly appreciated!

All the Best!

--Consiglieri

[_Doctor Scratch]

A good start, Consig. Don't forget, though, that Daniel Peterson was recruited by the SCMC to work as an "agent." He (i.e., DCP) was asked to meet one-on-one with a wavering member. There are plenty of old threads on this if you care to look, with DCP denying that this was in any way "sinister," etc. But I think it's interesting that the SCMC would have reached out to one of the main Mopologists in this way--get them to do the "dirty work," as it were.

[_consiglieri]

A good start, Consig. Don't forget, though, that Daniel Peterson was recruited by the SCMC to work as an "agent." He (i.e., DCP) was asked to meet one-on-one with a wavering member. There are plenty of old threads on this if you care to look, with DCP denying that this was in any way "sinister," etc. But I think it's interesting that the SCMC would have reached out to one of the main Mopologists in this way--get them to do the "dirty work," as it were.

Great point!

Thanks so much for your help!

[_Kishkumen]

Greetings, consig:

Very interesting topic. I think it is important to include the D&C revelation that commands the church to collect materials from opponents.

Best,

Kish

ETA: You might also consider expanding this in the future to include spying on polygamists, spying at BYU, and other LDS intelligence operations. Also, the intersection between Church Security and US intelligence services would be an interesting angle to pursue. Oh, and don't forget the More Good Foundation.

[_consiglieri]

Greetings, consig:

Very interesting topic. I think it is important to include the D&C revelation that commands the church to collect materials from opponents.

Best,

Kish

ETA: You might also consider expanding this in the future to include spying on polygamists, spying at BYU, and other LDS intelligence operations. Also, the intersection between Church Security and US intelligence services would be an interesting angle to pursue. Oh, and don't forget the More Good Foundation.

Yes, that section from D&C (one of the three sections comprising excerpts from the letter Joseph Smith wrote from Liberty Jail, I think) is usually cited as justification for this type of activity. But when it is used to monitor members of the church expressing heterodox opinions, it seems a stretch to use as justification a command to gather up all the spurious and libelous writings of anti-Mormons that persecuted the saints from Missouri.

Just went back to check on it. It is D&C 123. And though most of it does fall under that category, there is this part that could be seen as justification for a continuing committee to do just what the SCMC is doing:

4 And perhaps a committee can be appointed to find out these things, and to take statements and affidavits; and also to gather up the libelous publications that are afloat;

11 And also it is an imperative duty that we owe to all the rising generation, and to all the pure in heart—

12 For there are many yet on the earth among all sects, parties, and denominations, who are blinded by the subtle craftiness of men, whereby they lie in wait to deceive, and who are only kept from the truth because they know not where to find it—

So yes, going back to look at this more closely, I can see how the Church could conceive of this as a scriptural mandate to form a committee to do exactly what the SCMC is doing. Good point!

As to the ETA on your post regarding spying, I seem to recall a year or so ago a tape recorder being found under a student desk in a classroom at BYU, ostensibly put there for the purpose of recording a class; which may have been an attempt by a student to spy on a professor.

Found it!

Let me see if I can find a link to that article.

http://fox13now.com/2014/11/17/byu-poli ... ture-hall/

PROVO, Utah -- Police at Brigham Young University are investigating a potential spy on campus.

Two professors first discovered a hidden tape recorder inside a lecture hall at the Joseph Smith Building on Oct. 23.

"They were working on a power point and they just happened to pick up the stool behind the lectern there and underneath it was a small digital Sony recorder that was velcroed to the bottom," said Lt. Arnold Lemmon, BYU Police.

The professors didn't report the tape recorder until a few weeks later, when more stools, in three other classrooms inside the same building, were also found with Velcro fastened to the bottom.

"They tried to play it back and they inadvertently erased a portion of it," Lemmon said. "We do have in our possession the memory card out of it and we sent it to our tech people and they are trying to restore whatever was or is on there."

The tape recorder was purchased inside the BYU Book Store, according to police.

The Joseph Smith Building is primarily used for religious courses. Students are baffled by who would want to secretly record a class that's already open to everyone.

"It's beyond me why anyone would think they are going to tape somebody secretive, I don't know," said student Garrett Harper.

"This is the religion building so that's a little odd to me that it's only in this building," said student Austin Daw.

Police said under Utah law it's OK to record someone as long as one of the parties knows about the recording. However, if you record a conversation, lecture, etc., without those involved knowing, and then leave, it is illegal, which police believe is what happened in this particular case. The person responsible is facing a misdemeanor.

I am unable to locate any follow-up to this story.

I wonder why that would be . . .

[_Fifth Columnist]

Don't forget Christine Jeppsen Clark's Mormon Stories interview. Her father was one of the GAs tasked with the September Six excommunications. It was absolutely pushed by the higher-ups, not local leaders.

http://www.mormonstories.org/christine- ... m-jeppsen/

[_Xenophon]

Another story line probably worth pursuing (as if you didn't have enough) is Snuffer's. His story is a little unique as he is opposite the spectrum of many that are pursued by the SCMS - they don't like fundamentalists either, I guess.

I've found his blog posts about the matter pretty fascinating (see here). One pretty common theme in all of these stories that come out is that it is almost always a Stake President with integrity that winds up revealing too much.

I look forward to your podcast on this consig. I don't think I've ever posted about it here but I really enjoy your work.

[_Kishkumen]

Cool, consiglieri! Yes, I thought there was something there. And, really, I am not concerned so much with whether the spying is justified so much as the fact that that section is used to justify the spying. The stuff about BYU is chilling to me and I have to say that all of us who might have worked at BYU (David Bokovoy, I'm looking in your direction) are better off without that kind of nonsense in our/their lives, shame though that may be in other respects.

[_Kishkumen]

Another story line probably worth pursuing (as if you didn't have enough) is Snuffer's. His story is a little unique as he is opposite the spectrum of many that are pursued by the SCMS - they don't like fundamentalists either, I guess.

I've found his blog posts about the matter pretty fascinating (see here). One pretty common theme in all of these stories that come out is that it is almost always a Stake President with integrity that winds up revealing too much.

The excommunication of Denver Snuffer, like that of so many others, is a vile and disgusting affair, full of moral cowardice from the highest levels of the LDS Church. Any organization that behaves in such a fashion fully deserves the exodus of its members.

Here is the most telling moment of Snuffer's post:

I distinguish between faith in Christ and faith in the church. It is essential to salvation that we have faith in Christ. Nowhere, however, do the scriptures ask or command us to have faith in the church. I believe everything I have written encourages faith in Christ. Whether it "destroys faith" in the church or not is irrelevant.

If I have said it once, I have said it a thousand times, ecclesiolatry is one of the principal spiritual diseases of the LDS Church.

[_Xenophon]

+1000 Kish