Genealogical Confusion in Book of Abraham

[_Shulem]

It's reasonable to assume had Joseph Smith survived we would have been provided with more chapters of his Book of Abraham story and perhaps even the Book of Joseph that Smith himself was cooking in his brain. Manuscript No. 7 of the Kirtland Papers is quite interesting and undoubtedly book material kept in store for future revelations to the church.

The notebook front cover of this small notebook apparently bears the initials of Frederick G. Williams (F.G.W.) of the First Presidency of the Church and the name of Williams. The contents of this notebook consists of hieroglyphs, English text, and sketches of Egyptian funerary images. Page one is in the handwriting of W.W. Phelps. Two specific royal Egyptian names are given in a brief transcription:

Katumin, Princess, daughter of On-i-tas King of Egypt, who

reigned began to reign in the year of the world, 2962.

Katumin was born in the 30th year of the reign of her

father, and died when she was 28 years old, which was the year 3020

NOTE ~ Princess Katumin is spelled Kahtoumun in the EA&G manuscripts. King Onitas is also found in the translation manuscripts of the Book of Abraham as well as the finished version of the Book of Abraham (1:11) under the spelling of Onitah.

You'll notice however, that the proposed calendar year doesn't jive well in the so-called 6,000 year chronology of Bible history from Adam to now. It's too bad this didn't find it's way into Mormon scripture because it would have been contradictory revelation fit for the chopping block in further proving Joseph Smith's story a fraud.

In addition: Front Cover of Manuscript No. 6, signed by Joseph Smith Jr.

Valuable Discovery of

hidden records that have

been obtained from ancient

burying place of the Egyptians

Joseph Smith Jr.

[_Kishkumen]

Kish,

Don't have the background to contribute here - but enjoyed your OP just the same. I've never seen this particular example of Mormon scriptural nonsense referred to before. Thanks for pointing this one out.

Thank you, DrW!

[_Kishkumen]

Page one is in the handwriting of W.W. Phelps. Two specific royal Egyptian names are given in a brief transcription:

Katumin, Princess, daughter of On-i-tas King of Egypt, who

reigned began to reign in the year of the world, 2962.

Katumin was born in the 30th year of the reign of her

father, and died when she was 28 years old, which was the year 3020

NOTE ~ Princess Katumin is spelled Kahtoumun in the EA&G manuscripts. King Onitas is also found in the translation manuscripts of the Book of Abraham as well as the finished version of the Book of Abraham (1:11) under the spelling of Onitah.

You'll notice however, that the proposed calendar year doesn't jive well in the so-called 6,000 year chronology of Bible history from Adam to now. It's too bad this didn't find it's way into Mormon scripture because it would have been contradictory revelation fit for the chopping block in further proving Joseph Smith's story a fraud.

Hmmm...

Is it possible that these years are Anno Mundi? In other words, dated from the Creation of the World?

In that case, the lives of Pharaoh Onitas (first regnal year: AM 2962) and Katumin (d. AM 3020) would fall between the Exodus (AM 2666) and the erection of Solomon's temple (AM 3146).

In a funny way, this makes a lot of sense (despite the non-existence of both Katumin and Onitas), since it seems to me that Joseph Smith clearly believed that a record of Joseph, which included all of the records of the patriarchs up to his time, had remained in Egypt, handed down by members of the Egyptian royal families, and copied and buried with members of those families.

What it seems that Joseph envisioned was a record of Joseph, which remained in Egypt, and a record of Moses, based on Joseph's record, which continued the saga of Israel, but also altered the record of Joseph. Moses obtained this record when he recovered Joseph's bones from the waters of the Nile and brought them to Palestine, burying them at Shechem.

You may ask: how do you know Moses recovered the record of Joseph when he recovered Joseph's bones from the Nile? Where are you getting this stuff about the Nile anyway?

And Joseph took an oath of the children of Israel, saying, God will surely visit you, and ye shall carry up my bones from hence. So Joseph died, being an hundred and ten years old: and they embalmed him, and he was put in a coffin in Egypt.

And Moses took the bones of Joseph with him: for he had straitly sworn the children of Israel, saying, God will surely visit you; and ye shall carry up my bones away hence with you.

When the Israelites were coming out of Egypt, and intended to bring Joseph's bones with them, they say the river Nile had overflown the place where the bones were;
and so Moses made the picture of a calf in a certain gold plate, which, floating on the water, shewed the place where Joseph's bones lay; which plate, they say, was brought with other jewels to Aaron, and cast into the fire,
by virture whereof the whole mass of gold was turned into the shape of a calf: but it is most like that Aaron,
according to the desire of the people, made a calf like unto the Egyptian god Apis, which they had seen the Egyptians worship....

And the bones of Joseph, which the children of Israel brought up out of Egypt, buried they in Shechem, in a parcel of ground which Jacob bought of the sons of Hamor the father of Shechem for an hundred pieces of silver: and it became the inheritance of the children of Joseph.

Joseph's purchase of mummies with scrolls provided him the model for Joseph's mummification and burial with his own records. (Of course, the embalming of Joseph is found in the Bible.)

[_Shulem]

Is it possible that these years are Anno Mundi? In other words, dated from the Creation of the World?

In that case, the lives of Pharaoh Onitas (first regnal year: AM 2962) and Katumin (d. AM 3020) would fall between the Exodus (AM 2666) and the erection of Solomon's temple (AM 3146).

abt 2294 BC The Flood (The Book of Moses confirms the chronology contained in the Genesis account from Adam to the death of Methuselah, 1,656 years. The Bible affirms that Noah was 600 years old during the flood which is the same year that Methuselah died.)

If Mormons want to maintain Joseph Smith's 6,000 year temporal time frame as established by D&C 77 and other references then the 2294 BC flood date would be in the 1700 AM range. But true Egyptian chronology is much older than that. It just goes to show that biblical chronology is nothing but myth and cannot possibly accommodate predynastic and dynastic Egyptian history.

Mormonism's Book of Moses and the Bible chronology, is a flop. I really wish more of Joseph Smith's Abrahamic work had made it's way into scripture. We'd be able to roast it just as we do the Explanations of the Facsimiles. Smith's dating system was totally false. It doesn't work. It's anti science. It's anti historical and contradicts the written record just as the Bible does.

[_consiglieri]

This from our friends at Wikipedia about Menes, who was also known as Hor-Aha.

Menes (/ˈmiːniːz/; Egyptian: mnj, probably pronounced */maˈnij/;[5] Ancient Greek: Μήνης;[4] Arabic: مينا‎‎) was a pharaoh of the Early Dynastic Period of ancient Egypt credited by classical tradition with having united Upper and Lower Egypt and as the founder of the First Dynasty.[6]

The identity of Menes is the subject of ongoing debate, although mainstream Egyptological consensus identifies Menes with the Naqada III ruler Narmer[1][2][3] (most likely) or First Dynasty pharaoh Hor-Aha.[7] Both pharaohs are credited with the unification of Egypt to different degrees by various authorities.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Menes

The "Hor" element of the name is short for "Horus" and shows up several times in the Book of Mormon, as in Korihor, Nehor and Pa-Hor-an.

It should not be overlooked that the name "Aha" also shows up in the Book of Mormon in a passing reference to a military commander.

Alma 16:5 Therefore, he that had been appointed chief captain over the armies of the Nephites, (and his name was Zoram, and he had two sons, Lehi and Aha)—now Zoram and his two sons, knowing that Alma was high priest over the church, and having heard that he had the spirit of prophecy, therefore they went unto him and desired of him to know whither the Lord would that they should go into the wilderness in search of their brethren, who had been taken captive by the Lamanites.

[_Shulem]

Let's not forget that Joseph Smith messing around with the name "Egypt" to come up with "Egyptus" is fake stuff. He's trying to make an impression and act like he really knows the Egyptian language as he did in other presentations with proper names that are supposed to be Egyptian in origin. But it's all an anachronism and he's tampering with Greek, not Egyptian.

It's further proof that Smith via his holy ghost didn't know what he was doing or what he was talking about. Just making stuff up out of thin air to woo his followers.

[_consiglieri]

It's further proof that Smith via his holy ghost didn't know what he was doing or what he was talking about. Just making stuff up out of thin air to woo his followers.

How do you explain the unlikely, but Egyptologically sound, name of "Aha" showing up in the Book of Mormon?

Sure, it could just be coincidence.

But if I were coming up with names for minor characters, I don't know that I would come up with "Aha."

Were there other names like that in Joseph Smith's community?

Or could he have been aware this was a name for Menes from other sources?

[_Shulem]

How do you explain the unlikely, but Egyptologically sound, name of "Aha" showing up in the Book of Mormon?

Sure, it could just be coincidence.

But if I were coming up with names for minor characters, I don't know that I would come up with "Aha."

Joseph Smith played around almost endlessly with proper names in the Book of Mormon, Book of Abraham, and Kirtland Papers. There are lots of biblical names in the Book of Mormon too but that doesn't mean anything other than Joseph Smith wanted them there. Same with the name Aha which is a conventional Egyptian name which is probably found in many languages both ancient and modern. It's simply Joseph Smith playing around with words and names like he was prone to do. Big faker!

How do you explain the UnEgyptian name of Shulem in the Facsimile No. 3? You see, Joseph Smith liked to play around with names but he got that one wrong as he did with everything else in Facsimile No. 3.

[_Shulem]

But if I were coming up with names for minor characters, I don't know that I would come up with "Aha."

Were there other names like that in Joseph Smith's community?

Or could he have been aware this was a name for Menes from other sources?

First of all, considering the topic matter, the time period in question is predynastic Egypt which would have been in Noah's time shortly after the flood and continue for many generations. Menes came much later. The Royal Canon of Turin lists many kings that preceded Menes or the First Dynasty. You see, Egypt had already been around for a very long time, long before Aha. The king's list pretty much make clear that Aha (fighting hawk) came after Menes (Narmer/catfish). These kings are also defined by different names depending on whether you're reading Egyptian or Greek.

Believe me, Joseph Smith was a total screwball, he didn't get anything right. He faked his way through everything he ever said about ancient Egypt. And if you don't believe me just read the Explanations of Facsimile No. 3 and you'll see there is nothing but the spirit of error and deceit rolling off the lips of that liar!

[_grindael]

I also came up with this conundrum...

“…the Prophet Joseph Smith… was of the lineage of Joseph through the loins of Ephraim.”—Doctrines of Salvation, vol. 3, p. 247

According to Genesis 41:45, 50-52, who was Ephraim’s mother?

“And Pharaoh called Joseph's name Zaphnathpaaneah; and he gave him to wife Asenath the daughter of Potipherah priest of On. And Joseph went out over all the land of Egypt. … And unto Joseph were born two sons before the years of famine came, which Asenath the daughter of Potipherah priest of On bare unto him. And unto Joseph were born two sons before the years of famine came, which Asenath the daughter of Potipherah priest of On bare unto him. And Joseph called the name of the firstborn Manasseh… And the name of the second called he Ephraim: For God hath caused me to be fruitful in the land of my affliction.”—Genesis 41:45, 50-52

“Now this king of Egypt was a descendant from the loins of Ham, and was a partaker of the blood of the Canaanites by birth. From this descent sprang all the Egyptians, and thus the blood of the Canaanites was preserved in the land. … Pharaoh, being a righteous man, established his kingdom and judged his people wisely and justly all his days, seeking earnestly to imitate that order established by the fathers …and also of Noah, his father, who blessed him with the blessings of the earth, and with the blessings of wisdom, but cursed him as pertaining to the Priesthood. Now, Pharaoh being of that lineage by which he could not have the right of Priesthood, notwithstanding the Pharaohs would fain claim it from Noah, through Ham, therefore my father was led away by their idolatry.”—Abraham 1:21-22, 26-27

Since the descendants of Ephriam are of ‘tainted blood’ how can anyone [even myself whose Patriarchal Blessing stated I was from that tribe] have held the Melchizedek Priesthood before the ban was lifted in 1978, including Smith? (I myself was ordained an Elder shortly before the ban was lifted). It seems a lot of Mormon Doctrine was just made up as Smith went along without very much thought as to contradictions, and if there were any, they just changed the revelations.

Now read this stellar Mormon logic on how Asenath could not be of the lineage of Cain/Ham/Canaan/Egyptians

Dear Gramps,

Genesis 41:45,50 says that Pharaoh gave Asenath, the daughter of Potipherah priest of On, to Joseph for a wife and that Ephraim and Manasseh were born to this union. Abraham 1:21-27 explains that the Pharaoh could not hold the priesthood because of his lineage. Wilford Woodruff stated “Any man having one drop of the seed of Cain in him cannot receive the Priesthood…” I realize that a revelation was received in 1978 which reversed this situation. Joseph Smith was a descendant of the tribe of Ephraim and so am I. How do we know that Joseph’s wife Asenath was not of the same lineage as Pharaoh? If she was, then we would all have been barred from holding the priesthood and the Prophet Joseph Smith would not have held the priesthood in the restoration. Please explain.
MGL, from Idaho

Dear MGL,

Given all the above, there is only one possible conclusion that can be drawn. Potipherah, the priest of On, was not of the lineage of Cain, as was Pharaoh.

Dear Gramps,

Genesis 41:45,50 says that Pharaoh gave Asenath, the daughter of Potipherah priest of On, to Joseph for a wife and that Ephraim and Manasseh were born to this union. Abraham 1:21-27 explains that the Pharaoh could not hold the priesthood because of his lineage. Wilford Woodruff stated “Any man having one drop of the seed of Cain in him cannot receive the Priesthood…” I realize that a revelation was received in 1978 which reversed this situation. Joseph Smith was a descendant of the tribe of Ephraim and so am I. How do we know that Joseph’s wife Asenath was not of the same lineage as Pharaoh? If she was, then we would all have been barred from holding the priesthood and the Prophet Joseph Smith would not have held the priesthood in the restoration. Please explain.
MGL, from Idaho

Dear MGL,

Given all the above, there is only one possible conclusion that can be drawn. Potipherah, the priest of On, was not of the lineage of Cain, as was Pharaoh