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Maksutov wrote:I do think the Mormons own more malls and politicians, though.

That's possible. It would be interesting to know if this is factually true. Just guessing, but I think there are more well known and influential LDS politicians (Hatch, Lee,etc.) than there are SDA politicians of similar stature. Could be wrong though.

Malls? How many malls and/or corporate enterprises are the SDA's involved in? Any idea, Mak? The page IHAQ linked to causes me to wonder if the SDA's may have other sources of income besides the tithe? Unless the enterprises/missions that they list are self funding/operating?

Regards,
MG

I have a question wrote:From what we know about Christ, which organisation is he more likely to be pleased with?

First of all, I think that there is A LOT we don't know about Christ and His ways/works here on this planet. To say that he is "more pleased" with the SDA's and the work that they do vs. the LDS Church is sorta of a reductionist/simplistic way of viewing things, isn't it? I think that it is not unreasonable to think that God is pleased with ALL of his children that are choosing to do good works and bring souls to Christ.

Regards,
MG

Maksutov wrote:

DrW wrote:Several 7DA medical professionals I have known volunteer periodically for from two weeks to a month, or more, to provide free medical and dental services overseas, mainly in Africa.

They often mobilize in small teams. They pay their own travel expenses and the church provides equipment and support services on the ground. All very professional and not a yellow T-shirt in sight.


However, when it comes to health related philanthropy, better to look to science and technology rather than religion. The Bill and Malinda Gates Foundation alone spends about 1000 times as much annually for health related programs worldwide as does the LDS Church (about $41 billion vs $40 million).

Well put, DrW. The SDAs have been in their benign phase recently. They have also been fonts of pseudoscience and creationism, so they don't quite have my love. The novel and movie The Road to Wellsville captures the heyday of some of their luminaries. I much prefer the Gates Foundation.

Against the Gates Foundation the Church efforts fade into insignificance.
https://www.gatesfoundation.org/~/media ... .PDF?la=en
They spent $5.5 billion last year on programmes.

DrW wrote:The Bill and Malinda Gates Foundation alone spends about 1000 times as much annually for health related programs worldwide as does the LDS Church (about $41 billion vs $40 million).

Bill and Malinda Gates and their outreach do A LOT of good. Fortunately the world is blessed with many different groups/organizations that make the world a better and more humane place to live. There is obviously still a lot of work to do. It's awesome that so many good people 'step up' to take care and/or contribute towards the needs of the down trodden and oppressed.

Regards,
MG

mentalgymnast wrote:

Maksutov wrote:I do think the Mormons own more malls and politicians, though.

That's possible. It would be interesting to know if this is factually true. Just guessing, but I think there are more well known and influential LDS politicians (Hatch, Lee,etc.) than there are SDA politicians of similar stature. Could be wrong though.

Malls? How many malls and/or corporate enterprises are the SDA's involved in? Any idea, Mak? The page IHAQ linked to causes me to wonder if the SDA's may have other sources of income besides the tithe? Unless the enterprises/missions that they list are self funding/operating?

Regards,
MG

Sorry, I wasn't able to find information on SDA malls, but I did discover more evidence of their superiority over the LDS. They practice transparency and democracy in church governance, something inconceivable to the Mafiosi from Mr. Mac.

......

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polity_of ... ist_Church


The governance (polity) of the Seventh-day Adventist Church is based on democratic representation, and therefore resembles the Presbyterian system of church organization. The organizational structure of the church consists of the following levels:

The global church is called the "General Conference", composed operatively of 13 "Divisions".
Each division is composed of "Union Conferences" and/or "Union Missions" (112 total). Union Conferences are self-supporting financially, while Union Missions are not.

Each union conference is composed of [local] "Conferences" and/or "Missions" (572 total). Local Conferences are self-supporting financially, while Local Missions are not. Certain unions are composed of local congregations. They do not have local conferences/missions.

Each local conference/mission is composed of local churches (congregations). Often a number of local congregations are grouped operatively as a district, led by one senior pastor. In the United States, these numbers tend to be smaller (2-4 churches per district, perhaps), while in most of the worldwide church, the numbers tend to be larger (5+ per district and per pastor, sometimes as many as 15 or more).

Each level of organization holds a "general session" at certain intervals, when elected representatives gather to vote on general decisions and church business. The president of the General Conference, for instance, is elected at the General Conference Session every five years.
At the local churches, decisions are made by elected committees through vote of members. The day-to-day running of churches is governed by a church board formed by members of that church, together with the pastor of that congregation.

In contrast to congregational polity, the conference corporation owns church property, employs and pays ministers, and receives tithes from members. In contrast to episcopal polity, the ministers or pastors are a single level of ordained clergy and there are no bishops; elders and deacons are lay ministries. Moreover, it incorporates a hierarchical polity.

Interestingly, the 7DA's and the Gates foundation have no problem publishing their financials....

Despite a global economic recession spanning most of the past quinquennium, annual worldwide tithe for the past five years grew more than 40 percent, increasing from US$1.3 billion in 2004 to $1.8 billion in 2009. Similarly, world mission offerings during the period grew almost 32 percent, from $50 million to $64 million per year.

https://news.adventist.org/en/all-news/ ... aders-say/

I have a question wrote:

mentalgymnast wrote:The Church seems to have developed a very efficient system by which to move the gospel message forth to the countries that are open to missionaries.

Regards,
MG

You might want to sit down, I have some bad news.

The fact is, since the time I served my mission in the seventies the church has 'honed up' its delivery system and ways/means by which the gospel message is distributed/taught throughout the world.

I think the church is always looking for other ways to teach/reach people besides tracting/cold calling. I think that we can agree on that.

http://www.deseretnews.com/top/1413/20/ ... enter.html

My point in the OP is that there has been significant growth in the number of MTC's throughout the world since the time I served my mission.

Regards,
MG

In other words, 15 LDS sales training centers pock the earth.

And let us compare how successful these young unwitting sales men and women are today and when you sold LDS.

Far less successful.

Add some vodka to your Snapple Lemon Iced Tea.

Dr. Shades wrote:Any theories as to why they shut down the M.T.C. in Japan?

mentalgymnast wrote:Not needed, possibly?

Japanese people value human relationships more than truth and principle, said Dr. Minoru Okuyama, director of the Missionary Training Center [not the LDS MTC...] in Japan, during his presentation at the Tokyo 2010 Global Missions Consultations.

"Because they are afraid of disturbing human relationships of their families or neighborhood even though they know that Christianity is the best," said Okuyama, who previously was Buddhist and a Shintoist. "Thus, Japanese make much of human relationships more than the truth. Consequently we can say that as for Japanese, one of the most important things is harmony; in Japanese 'Washington.'"

He added, "[T]hose who harm the harmony are bad, whether they are right or not has been beside the question."

Less than one percent of Japan's population is Christian even though the religion was brought to the country over 150 years ago.
http://www.christianpost.com/news/missi ... pan-45217/

Apparently Christianity has had a difficult time taking a firm toe hold in Japan?

Regards,
MG

No, LDS Inc has a hard time respecting the culture of other countries.


Look at converts in Africa. They are expected to dress and act like white folks from Utah valley.

Leave them alone.

mentalgymnast wrote:The fact is, since the time I served my mission in the seventies the church has 'honed up' its delivery system and ways/means by which the gospel message is distributed/taught throughout the world.

Be more specific about the changes made to the delivery system.
Because the missionaries I interact with today, 45 years later, are still spending the vast majority of their time knocking on doors and approaching strangers in the street or on public transport.

I think the church is always looking for other ways to teach/reach people besides tracting/cold calling.

45 years of looking for New ways - Such as?

My point in the OP is that there has been significant growth in the number of MTC's throughout the world since the time I served my mission.

Regards,
MG

Your point in the OP reads as "Look at us, we've got 15 MTC's, let's compare with what other organisations have got. "

So we started comparing, it didn't work out so well for you.