Holland's "Hi-Jack Hero Dieter" story doesn't pass scrutiny.

[Guest]

Here is another worrying angle on this story, which is, I agree, not very plausible:

If we conclude that it is either untrue or considerably exaggerated, does that not mean that Uchtdorf has heard Holland tell this story, and has let it pass without saying something like:

'Thanks for saying such nice things about me, Brother Holland, but really I didn't do anything like you said I did. Some kind person has been exaggerating my modest contribution to that affair. I wouldn't like anyone to get the wrong idea about me.'

[_Xenophon]

It isn't really that big a deal but I find the writing of the Uchtdorf story telling.

On December 17, 1973, the president of Lufthansa German Airlines received alarming news. Five terrorists had hijacked a Lufthansa 737 jet in Rome, Italy, and were making their way to Athens, Greece, with hostages on board. In an instant, Lufthansa’s president ordered into the air his chief pilot for the 737 fleet. Thirty-three-year-old Dieter F. Uchtdorf was to take a small group of emergency personnel and follow the hijacked plane wherever the guerrillas took it. In every setting possible he was to negotiate for the release of the plane, the pilots, and the hostages. Then, when all of this had been accomplished, he was to fly the hijacked 737 back to headquarters in Frankfurt.

With fortunately no more bloodshed, this mission, like so many others he had been on personally and professionally, was successfully accomplished. Unknown to him at the time, it was a portent of more important missions yet to come.

Emphasis mine, of course. Personally I think I would have put negotiating for the hostages first(aren't the pilots hostages too?), ahead of the plane. I suppose their priority fits the narrative though, as he was essentially just there to fly the plane back.

[_CameronMO]

Maybe I'm a little crass, but Lufthansa picked Dieter to fly a plane after terrorists had hijacked it. That's what they thought of him.

He was probably a better-than-average pilot, competent and respected, but not good enough to be expendable.

[_Themis]

I would start with little things like this:

In an instant, the president of Lufthansa ordered into the air his chief pilot for the 737 fleet

Is there a such thing as a "chief pilot" for the "737 fleet"? references I'm seeing imply a single chief pilot role for the entire fleet, and the Church's bio has Uchdorf "ultimately" becoming "chief pilot".

I know nothing about the airline business, but that sentence stuck out as one of those "one of the houses the Hell's Angels own" type statements.

Usually it's by seniority. A 33 year old would neither have seniority or enough experience to be on top.

[_I have a question]

I recently came across a television interview that I filmed 30 years ago, around the time of the dedication of the Frankfurt Germany Temple. As you can see, I was a much younger man then. In addition to serving as the chair of the temple committee, I also was a stake president and chief pilot of Lufthansa. It was a very busy time, indeed.

https://www.lds.org/prophets-and-apostl ... w?lang=eng

The Frankfurt temple reference places this at 1987.
So he was Chief Pilot of Lufthansa in 1987 AND in 1973 when the Hi-Jack took place.

My money is on Holland getting the story directly from Uchtdorf.
We can conclude that Uchtdorf is happy to be portrayed as Hi-Jack Hero because has neither had it altered or removed.

[_Doctor Steuss]

The Frankfurt temple reference places this at 1987.
So he was Chief Pilot of Lufthansa in 1987 AND in 1973 when the Hi-Jack took place.

From: https://www.lds.org/ensign/2005/03/elde ... g=eng&_r=1

In 1970, at age 29, Dieter Uchtdorf made captain with Lufthansa, a rank he was once told he could never achieve until late in his career. Then in a rather meteoric rise this airborne Wunderkind was made manager of the 737 fleet (1972), director of the Arizona training school (1975), chief pilot and head of cockpit crews (1980), and finally senior vice president of flight operations (1982).

It appears that when the incident too place (according to this timeline), he was the manager of the 737 fleet. He didn't become chief pilot until 1980.

[_I have a question]

Can somebody capture the two lds.org biographies written by holland before they go down the memory hole?
And your reference page too Steuss?

Dieter's (new?) biography page reads....

In 1965 President Uchtdorf began working for Lufthansa German Airlines as a pilot. From 1970 until 1996 he flew as captain of the B737, Airbus, DC10, and B747. While also working as training and check captain, he received several management responsibilities. These positions included Section Chief Pilot B737, head of Lufthansa pilot school in Arizona, head of all cockpit crews, and finally Senior Vice President Flight Operations and Lufthansa Chief Pilot. He was also chairman of the Flight Operations Committee of the International Air Transport Association.

https://www.lds.org/church/leader/diete ... f?lang=eng

Holland, caught out again.

And Uchtdorf has let these Holland versions stand, uncorrected on lds.org
https://www.lds.org/ensign/2005/03/elde ... s?lang=eng
https://www.lds.org/prophets-and-apostl ... f?lang=eng

The members deserve clarification and another retraction from Holland, and a comment from Dieter as to why he didn't correct the overstating of his position and role in this incident by Holland.

[_kairos]

This is like the Gene Cook story- but it has been smashed to pieces by logic- he flew a backup[ plane to bring home the german crew if needed he could not speak the language nor was he trained in hostage negotiations; he was not in the thick of things; he took direction from lufthansa bosses.

i personally believe a ghost writer put the holland piece together, holland told him/her to add a few things and they have JRH's fingerprints all over them as lies. look, holland had no idea this bio/story would ever come up again so just go with it.

now i think DU was/is embarrassed by the story and probably got some of it excised from the story on the lds website originally.

no way was DU going to JRH and say "thank you for the kind words but some of this BS and you need ti take it out"- junior apostles do not talk like that to their elders.


i am sure DU say thisas the first of along line of lies he has seen come out of church HQs- would he call them on it now- not a prayer!

[_kairos]

This is like the Gene Cook story- but it has been smashed to pieces by logic- he flew a backup plane to bring home the german crew if needed; he could not speak the language nor was he trained in hostage negotiations; he was not in the thick of things; he took direction from lufthansa bosses.

i personally believe a ghost writer put the holland piece together, holland told him/her to add a few things and they have JRH's fingerprints all over them as lies. look, holland had no idea this bio/story would ever come up again so just go with it.

now i think DU was/is embarrassed by the story and probably got some of it excised from the story on the lds website originally.

no way was DU going to JRH and say "thank you for the kind words but some of this is lying and you need it take it out"- junior apostles do not talk like that to their elders.


i am sure DU sees this as the first of along line of lies he has seen come out of church HQs- would he call them on it now- not a prayer!

[_toon]

It isn't really that big a deal but I find the writing of the Uchtdorf story telling.

On December 17, 1973, the president of Lufthansa German Airlines received alarming news. Five terrorists had hijacked a Lufthansa 737 jet in Rome, Italy, and were making their way to Athens, Greece, with hostages on board. In an instant, Lufthansa’s president ordered into the air his chief pilot for the 737 fleet. Thirty-three-year-old Dieter F. Uchtdorf was to take a small group of emergency personnel and follow the hijacked plane wherever the guerrillas took it. In every setting possible he was to negotiate for the release of the plane, the pilots, and the hostages. Then, when all of this had been accomplished, he was to fly the hijacked 737 back to headquarters in Frankfurt.

With fortunately no more bloodshed, this mission, like so many others he had been on personally and professionally, was successfully accomplished. Unknown to him at the time, it was a portent of more important missions yet to come.

Emphasis mine, of course. Personally I think I would have put negotiating for the hostages first(aren't the pilots hostages too?), ahead of the plane. I suppose their priority fits the narrative though, as he was essentially just there to fly the plane back.

The assertion, which you bolded, doesn't pass the smell test.

Is it plausible that the airline would have tasked a 33 year old pilot with no apparent diplomatic skills or training with negotiating the release? Would the airline even have been involved in those negotiations? Wouldn't that have been left up to the various countries where the plane landed, perhaps with some coordination between those countries?

Further, it's my understanding that the plane first landed in Greece, where one hostage was released and another who had been killed dumped on the tarmac. The plane then refueled, took off, and later attempted to land in Beirut. Lebanon refused the landing, blocking the runway. The plane then attempted to land in Damascus. The landing was again blocked, but because the plan was low on fuel, it landed on an alternative runway what had not been blocked. The plane refueled in Syria and took off. It then was allowed landing in Kuwait, where the hostages were released, the hijackers taken into custody, but then later released.

I may have some of those facts wrong, but was Holland claiming that Lufthansa had a plane shadowing this plane, when there was no idea where it would land or be allowed to land, when the plane was low on fuel, etc.? I can imagine having a support team in the area, ready to go on a moment's notice, with a pilot who could retrieve and fly the plane back, but I can't imagine that it was anything more than that.