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The last Church Patriarch, Eldred G. Smith, possessed and would sometimes display the three magical parchments, their pouch, and the ceremonial dagger that belonged to Hyrum Smith, the second Church Patriarch. Now, it could be that Eldred possessed these items simply because he was a direct descendant of Hyrum Smith. But, I also wonder whether it is possible that these family relics were believed to be connected with the office of Church Patriarch. We know that Joseph Smith, Sr. was deeply involved in folk magic, so he would have attached a great deal of significance to such objects, and he was the first Church Patriarch. Hyrum, the second Church Patriarch, was the possessor of these objects, and some think the maker of them. Could it be the case that the Smiths passed them along to the Patriarchs of the Church until they reached Eldred G. Smith?

It seems somewhat unlikely, but it is possible.

Kishkumen wrote:It seems somewhat unlikely, but it is possible.

"Unlikely?" How else would Eldred G. Smith have gotten them?

I had no idea about Eldred Smith possessing these magic parchments, and I certainly didn't know he would display them!

Where on earth did you learn this?

Interesting proposition, Reverend, and certainly possible given the milieu of the Smith family. Do we have any photographs of these items?

So what reason did the Morg give to halt the patriarch position- was eldred making too much off of blessings or showing the relics or the hinckster did not want to give a stipend to the man? could be that position was threat to the FP-just maybe!

kairos wrote:So what reason did the Morg give to halt the patriarch position- was eldred making too much off of blessings or showing the relics or the hinckster did not want to give a stipend to the man? could be that position was threat to the FP-just maybe!

This book is the best treatment on the subject I have found.
Lost Legacy The Mormon Office of the Presiding Patriarch

It has been a while since I read it but I think there were several problems for the FP, the main one being the FP did not have control over who held the office. As envisioned by Joseph Smith, it was a role that should have been equal to the FP. Over time as the Smith bloodline was no longer part of the Q12 & FP the emphasis on hereditary leadership wasn't considered as important and even seen as a threat. Without any Smith's in the Q12, there was no one there to advocate for the Presiding Patriarch's office and its duties. It's holder was given less and less responsibilities and included less and less in high level decision making processes. Eventually the last holder Eldred G Smith was given emeritus status in 1979 at the age of 72 and died in 2013.

There has been no announcement from the church that I know of to replace him even though there are faithful descendants available who could be called to the office.

as far as I know the book did not mention anything about magic parchments.

Maksutov wrote:Interesting proposition, Reverend, and certainly possible given the milieu of the Smith family. Do we have any photographs of these items?

For the dagger, see this link:

http://www.fullerconsideration.com/images/inscribeddagger.jpg

consiglieri wrote:I had no idea about Eldred Smith possessing these magic parchments, and I certainly didn't know he would display them!

Where on earth did you learn this?

Brent Metcalfe.

Dr. Shades wrote:

Kishkumen wrote:It seems somewhat unlikely, but it is possible.

"Unlikely?" How else would Eldred G. Smith have gotten them?

Well, the question is whether they were connected to the Patriarchy or simply passed down in the family as family heirlooms. The more likely explanation is the latter, but I find the former an intriguing possibility.

Kishkumen wrote:

Maksutov wrote:Interesting proposition, Reverend, and certainly possible given the milieu of the Smith family. Do we have any photographs of these items?

For the dagger, see this link:

http://www.fullerconsideration.com/images/inscribeddagger.jpg

The parchments look like something from Francis Barrett's The Magus, which the Smiths could have access to.

Do I see and understand correctly that the blade of the dagger on one side shows the tetragrammaton? Seems like someone was playing with Qaballah. These also remind me of the Jupiter talisman that Reed Durham talked about. My understanding of the dagger from traditional magic is that it is used to create magic circles for binding spirits. I will see if I can find out more.