Kishkumen wrote:So, Bot, has anyone done a study of the Nephi dynasty?
Fascinating stuff Kish. Wasn't the name of the angel first spelled Maroni?
Here's one idea. There are a few sources, including one from Constantine Rafinesque (a close acquaintance with Samuel Mitchill), that identify Maroni as the serpent or dragon in the Siamese/Malay zodiac. In the mid 19th century Maroni or Maron was also defined as a title given to warrior chieftains with preternatural shapeshifting abilities.
Curiously, Samuel Mitchill pushed a theory that Native Americans were partly descended from the Malay and they fought a great battle near Onondaga in upstate New York.
Mahujah wrote:Fascinating stuff Kish. Wasn't the name of the angel first spelled Maroni?
Here's one idea. There are a few sources, including one from Constantine Rafinesque (a close acquaintance with Samuel Mitchill), that identify Maroni as the serpent or dragon in the Siamese/Malay zodiac. In the mid 19th century Maroni or Maron was also defined as a title given to warrior chieftains with preternatural shapeshifting abilities.
Whoa! Extremely intriguing, Mahujah. So, Rafinesque and Mitchill had a theory that people from Malay migrated to North America and settled in the Great Lakes region. Among the Malay, the word Marong/Maroni is a mythological creature and the name of a leadership position. The idea is that perhaps this is the angel/fiery salamander who was named Maroni. But, if true, this raises big questions about the background and authorship of the Book of Mormon.
Frankly, Rafinesque is exactly the sort of person I would suppose was ultimately behind the story that became the Book of Mormon. Not that the text Joseph Smith produced was simply a Rafinesque's, but more that key aspects of the Book of Mormon mythos ultimately trace back to someone with a background like Rafinesque's.
"Petition wasn’t meant to start a witch hunt as I’ve said 6000 times." ~ Hanna Seariac, LDS apologist
Kishkumen wrote: So, Rafinesque and Mitchill had a theory that people from Malay migrated to North America and settled in the Great Lakes region. Among the Malay, the word Marong/Maroni is a mythological creature and the name of a leadership position.
Yes, well at least Mitchill. His Malay theory on the origins of the Native Americans was fairly well known in the 1820s. In Malay tradition, Maroni/Marong/Maron was a title given to warrior chiefs with preternatural abilities. This word was known to Rafinesque who was quite close to Mitchill. I believe Rafinesque even lived in the Mitchill home and tutored Mitchill's children, all during the time he would have been working on his own Native American tablets, the Walam Olum.
Another thing about Mitchill that caught my attention is that he wrote the foreword to The Late War, in which he praised Gilbert Hunt for his ability to write American history in Biblical tones. Interesting, since Mitchill was the first person Martin Harris intended to show the Anthon Transcript. According to Richard Bennet, it was Mitchill's assessment of the document that encouraged Harris. This is a great read:
Nightlion wrote:Seriously? I suppose people who simply know too damn much are subject to believing more crap than the usual person.
You know, Nightlion. I accord you a certain respect as someone I know and am fond of. I wish you would reciprocate. If you think I am full of crap, fine. But do you have to be insulting about it?
"Petition wasn’t meant to start a witch hunt as I’ve said 6000 times." ~ Hanna Seariac, LDS apologist
Mahujah wrote:Yes, well at least Mitchill. His Malay theory on the origins of the Native Americans was fairly well known in the 1820s. In Malay tradition, Maroni/Marong/Maron was a title given to warrior chiefs with preternatural abilities. This word was known to Rafinesque who was quite close to Mitchill. I believe Rafinesque even lived in the Mitchill home and tutored Mitchill's children, all during the time he would have been working on his own Native American tablets, the Walam Olum.
Another thing about Mitchill that caught my attention is that he wrote the foreword to The Late War, in which he praised Gilbert Hunt for his ability to write American history in Biblical tones. Interesting, since Mitchill was the first person Martin Harris intended to show the Anthon Transcript. According to Richard Bennet, it was Mitchill's assessment of the document that encouraged Harris. This is a great read:
Yes, for some time I have thought that Mitchill was an important person to look into. Some thought went into the plan for Martin Harris to visit Mitchill. Of that I have no doubt. Either Joseph Smith felt that Mitchill was the kind of person who would be open to the Book of Mormon claims, or Smith was feeding back to Mitchill his own beliefs. It raises questions about the possibility of a conspiracy among these fellows, certainly.
At the very least, we see with greater clarity all the time the kind of environment in which the Book of Mormon is not a disconnected outlier, but actually fairly close to the center of certain streams of early 19th century thought.
"Petition wasn’t meant to start a witch hunt as I’ve said 6000 times." ~ Hanna Seariac, LDS apologist
Kishkumen wrote: At the very least, we see with greater clarity all the time the kind of environment in which the Book of Mormon is not a disconnected outlier, but actually fairly close to the center of certain streams of early 19th century thought.
Nightlion wrote:Seriously? I suppose people who simply know too damn much are subject to believing more crap than the usual person.
You know, Nightlion. I accord you a certain respect as someone I know and am fond of. I wish you would reciprocate. If you think I am full of crap, fine. But do you have to be insulting about it?
I am a complete Jack-Ass. My son-in-law is finishing his basement. I framed it out for him and he wired it making more than a few mistakes. Then he hung sheet rock and made many mistakes like not sizing it to have framing to nail into along the joints. I fixed that. Then went back after he had put up more board. I exclaimed, looking at what he had just done: 'you are making every mistake in the book'. Rather than just haul off and hit me in my deserved face he storms out. He is a good guy and came back soon as his spike quelled.
Why am I so jaded socially? I might justify my impatience with the world by some sort of failure fatigue, having tried forever unto utter exhaustion and not one soul cares in the least. If I fail to regain the abundance of charity that fled from me in the mid70's I will remain nothing but tinkling brass. Shame on the world that they got nothing better than me.
I just love the frank confessions and then the blame it all on everyone else shtick. Classic wanna-be-a-prophet syndrome.
Riding on a speeding train; trapped inside a revolving door; Lost in the riddle of a quatrain; Stuck in an elevator between floors. One focal point in a random world can change your direction: One step where events converge may alter your perception.