William Law VS Joseph Smith

[_deacon blues]

grindael, this is great work. I'm going through it slowly (I'm a slow thinker ) and your references are excellent. I have a "Nauvoo City and High Council Minutes" but I can't find the reference from John Scott, Joseph's bodyguard. Is it some where else, or did I misunderstand the reference?

[_grindael]

Goldenbrass,

Thanks a lot for the kind words. All that research came out of a paper that I worked on with Jeremy Runnells on Joseph Smith's Spiritual Wifeism in rebuttal to the work of Brian Hales. It kind of got epic, the main body of the text being only about 150 pages, but including the notes it is over 500. It is broken up into four parts, with pictures, documents, maps, etc., and Jeremy left it for me to edit and I kind of got bogged down and then had some things come up and have to get back to finishing it. It's been going on since 2013. But Jeremy is a fantastic person and very patient and hasn't bothered me about it, but I really will be wrapping it up this summer. (Among other things my research computer was down for the last six months and I finally got it up and running this month, had some cancer issues, and some other problems in real life, along with having other research to finish and people waiting to publish that). Another problem was that it was very critical of Hales and his work, and some of that had to be edited out and toned down. When finally finished, it'll be published on either my blog (https://mormonitemusings.com/) or Jeremy's CES site. (https://cesletter.org/)

When you have over 200 footnotes and some of them 20 or more pages long, it takes a long time to go through and double check all of the material, and since I'm a very avid researcher, I found a lot of new material and made connections that no one else has about how it all came to pass. (A little joke). But corrections/additions needed to be made and that entails changing the footnotes or format of a 500 page document every time you do, so it's been a long slow process to get it finished.

I'm also writing a book on the subject and have a publisher lined up waiting on the manuscript. Yeah, these are excuses, but we never contemplated this thing getting so massive.

That said, I've shared some of the research here, to kind of get an idea of how it might be received. I was working on A History of Joseph's Spiritual Wifeism, which I started for the book, and was posted some of the research here, viewtopic.php?f=1&t=44423&p=1050701

Much of this is not in the paper I described above, but some is. Another thread you can read which has a lot of my original research is here, viewtopic.php?f=1&t=35452 on Brigham Young and the Priesthood Ban, but I don't jump in until about three pages in as I recall.

What I have found is that in looking over the original documents, many historians have gotten some of the basics completely wrong. One of them is with the timeline of the "sealing power", with Emma Smith's involvement in Joseph's Spiritual Wifeism and many of the "marriage" dates of Joseph's Spiritual Wives. I owe these revelations to something Dan Vogel wrote back in 2013 which set off a chain reaction which I think will change the current understanding of what Joseph did and why he did it and how he did it in relation to his Nauvoo polygamy. Therefore, I put the Spiritual Wifeism thread on hold for now, but will come back to it at some future time.

A lot of this is just common sense and not reading things back into the past (like the Kirtland Era of the Church). That is what virtually every historian has done, and it is wrong. If you read Gregory Prince's work on the Priesthood, you understand completely that what Joseph did was a work in progress and he changed and invented new things constantly as he went along. There was no grand plan of having it all in his mind years before the events came to pass. The Priesthood concept was developed as he went along and trying to put the sealing power back to Kirtland is simply ad hoc. Therefore the relationships that Joseph had with women went through different stages and in the beginning he felt he was justified simply because David and Solomon did it. The concept of "sealing" men to women in marriage wasn't invented until after 1842, after baptism for the dead and Mike Marquardt and I published a piece on the origins of that in the John Whitmer Historical Journal in 2016, an expanded version on my blog. It was after this, that Joseph then applied that concept to marriage.

This took many like William Law by surprise, but Joseph revealing eternal marriage wasn't the problem, it was that it would include the Spiritual Wives (which I call "Handshake Marriages"), which was anathema to those like Law. Those relationships were completely disposable to Smith if he needed them to be. (I have a long article in progress on this which will appear on my blog at some future date, it's been four years in the making and has brand new never before seen research in it).

It throws a big monkey wrench into his motives, which Law could not reconcile with Smith's claimed prophetic role as the Lawgiver of Mormonism. His betrayal and deception with Emma was something Joseph could not make some see the necessity of. But he was protecting himself from secular law, and Walmart. Law saw through his posturing. Law himself said that he almost accepted it, (I think the eternal marriage part with ONE WIFE), but he could not go along with the other part, (the polygamy) which Joseph taught was also commanded by God and that one was not valid without the other.

This leads me to the other question about John Scott. He was one of Smith's Danites, and his testimony was given at the secret excommunication trial of Walmart. Law and appears in the "Minutes of the Twelve Apostles" and no where else. The notes of this trial are garbled and difficult to decipher. But there is enough there to get an idea of what went on as I explained above. Law's goal was to displace Joseph as prophet, not kill him. It was always his goal. There was no murder conspiracy as Joseph and others claimed. Joseph's Spiritual Wifeism got out of hand at the beginning, and Bennett and Walmart. Smith and C. Higbee went off on their own and took what Joseph was doing and made it their own. Joseph could not have this, and so threw Bennett and Higbee under the bus (as he would not shut up and stay under Joseph's thumb) and protected his brother Walmart. at all costs. Joseph trying to make Nancy Rigdon a Spiritual Wife (who was the love interest of Francis Higbee) also didn't help. It was the turning point for many, including Law. (That scandal).

I have enough to know what Emma knew and when she knew it. Later, in Utah, it was necessary for them to involve her, so certain things were made up based on Walmart. Clayton's diary entries. Emily Partridge testified that Emma was involved, but I have one piece of evidence that shows she wasn't telling that story years earlier. It is almost a miracle that something like that survived. But I found it. I also found another account where someone who testified about Emma was coerced. (I call it that based on the account). These are later accounts, but they support my version of events. Hence my book is subtitled (as per my editor) A New History of Mormon Polygamy).

I value this forum, for it's feedback, for it's openness and for the interest in these matters. I'm thankful to each and every one of the people who have helped me and taken an interest in my research and hope that I can continue to present things that clarify the events in Joseph's life.

[_candygal]

This is so more than interesting to me as I was unaware of so many things here. In reality, I am related to so many Sagers here in Utah. But my big question is...did William Law kind of soften his stance when speaking with Joseph's son many years after arriving in Utah. The questions that his son had were very pertinent to his inquiry of what his father believed..and relatively died for. What kind of relationship did William have with the Smith offspring? Please forgive me if I have missed this already in previous posts. It is scary for me in many ways..I can't explain it.

[_grindael]

As far as I'm aware, Law never had a relationship with the Smith clan after Nauvoo. (He wound up in Wisconsin, via PA & then back to Illinois then Iowa for a time I believe) He did some interviews later in life and that is all we have on him, (that and census information).

Some very bad lies were told about him later by those in Utah.

[_grindael]

It will take some on the ground research to ferret out his later life, something I'll never do I'm afraid. Someone does need to go to Wisconsin (Shullsburg), and dig around and perhaps interview descendants.

[_candygal]

As far as I'm aware, Law never had a relationship with the Smith clan after Nauvoo. (He wound up in Wisconsin, via PA & then back to Illinois then Iowa for a time I believe) He did some interviews later in life and that is all we have on him, (that and census information).

Some very bad lies were told about him later by those in Utah.

Thank you. I do know he was questioned about Joseph's polygamy for which his son did not believe that he had anything to do with it. Thanks..!! You are a godsend to those of us who are not astute or have energy enough to search out these things. You are precious!

[_grindael]

You know, CG, that I sure wish I was younger and in better health. I have the strong desire to do what my friend Mike Marquardt does, go to the places and look around and dig and research and look at records (some of which I've done with him and it was truly rewarding and interesting), but I am just not able to do all that anymore. I'm trying to get to Utah this summer, and it's a hassle, but only because of my health problems. But if I can leave some tantalizing connections, then perhaps a younger generation will take it up and go and do the research. I hope so. It is the only way to really find answers. The Church has gotten more and more transparent with records, and I KNOW there is still a goldmine of information they have locked up. But they are now going to release all of Clayton's Journals, something we've been hoping for, for a long time. How things are written down is almost as important as the words themselves. Looking at grammar, how sentences are put together, you can't always get that from a transcription, you need to have the original holographs. It is too easy to make mistakes translating them and even one mistake can radically change the meaning of something.

[_candygal]

You know, CG, that I sure wish I was younger and in better health. I have the strong desire to do what my friend Mike Marquardt does, go to the places and look around and dig and research and look at records (some of which I've done with him and it was truly rewarding and interesting), but I am just not able to do all that anymore. I'm trying to get to Utah this summer, and it's a hassle, but only because of my health problems. But if I can leave some tantalizing connections, then perhaps a younger generation will take it up and go and do the research. I hope so. It is the only way to really find answers. The Church has gotten more and more transparent with records, and I KNOW there is still a goldmine of information they have locked up. But they are now going to release all of Clayton's Journals, something we've been hoping for, for a long time. How things are written down is almost as important as the words themselves. Looking at grammar, how sentences are put together, you can't always get that from a transcription, you need to have the original holographs. It is too easy to make mistakes translating them and even one mistake can radically change the meaning of something.

I wish you good health for many more years..even if you were labored in a bed all day,your keen mind is of so much value. Thank you so much for your hard work and research.

[_deacon blues]

As far as I'm aware, Law never had a relationship with the Smith clan after Nauvoo. (He wound up in Wisconsin, via PA & then back to Illinois then Iowa for a time I believe) He did some interviews later in life and that is all we have on him, (that and census information).

Some very bad lies were told about him later by those in Utah.

Thanks G, for the extra background, including the John Scott information. The lying about William Law is one thing I'm interested in. The most bizarre story I'm aware of, is of a drunken William Law trying to shoot a supernaturally protected (who bares his chest to Law) Joseph Smith, and his gun misfiring. The story sounds ridiculous, or at best doctored, but it is still being quoted as fact in a book called "500 Little-Known Facts About Joseph Smith."

[_grindael]

Thanks G, for the extra background, including the John Scott information. The lying about William Law is one thing I'm interested in. The most bizarre story I'm aware of, is of a drunken William Law trying to shoot a supernaturally protected (who bares his chest to Law) Joseph Smith, and his gun misfiring. The story sounds ridiculous, or at best doctored, but it is still being quoted as fact in a book called "500 Little-Known Facts About Joseph Smith."

Yeah, here is the information on that...

Hannah R. Larson whose maiden name was Hannah R. Stoddard and Adessa

Larson Christensen who is the daughter of Hannah R. Stoddard Larsen,

depose and say:

Charles Henry Stoddard was born on the 21st of April, 1837 [1827?], in

Newark, New Jersey, his parents being Israel Stoddard and Sarah

Woodward. As a boy he was employed by the Prophet Joseph Smith, in

Nauvoo, Illinois. While the Prophet was in hiding, he carried food to the

Prophet and delivered messages to and from the Prophet. The Prophet

trusted him implicitly. Upon one occasion, when in the street fixing a kite,

with other boys, a man came up and inquired where the Prophet was, to

which Charles replied, "He went to heaven on Hyrum's white horse and we

are fixing this kite to send his dinner to him." No one suspected his

important duties because of his youth.

While employed by the Prophet Joseph, William Law requested Charles to

come and work for him. He did not want to. After consulting with the

Prophet, he decided to do so. During his employment with William Law,

many private matters were talked of by Law and his associates in the

presence of the boy, without any hesitation, perhaps thinking that the boy

would not pay any attention to what was said. The boy was nevertheless on

the alert and took full cognizance of what was going on.

Upon retiring one evening, in a lean-to attached to a building which was

partly vacant and partly used for storage purposes, the lad was awakened by

conversation being held in the vacant portions of the building. This building

was a rendezvous of the bitter apostates and enemies of the Prophet among

whom was William Law, who seemed to be a ringleader. The lad listened

through a hole in the leg structure through which light was also emerging, and

learned that these men were plotting against the Prophet's life. He heard Law

tell this group of apostates that he would have Charles clean, oil and load his

gun which was one of his regular duties. After the group had disbanded and

had all left the building, the lad dressed and hurried to the home of the

Prophet and told him all that he had seen and heard and asked the Prophet

what he should do. The Prophet told him to return and act as nothing had

happened, and to do as his employer requested, and admonished him to load

the gun well. He told the boy that they could not hurt him until his time had

arrived. The boy did as requested. The next morning Mr. Law requested him

to clean, oil and load his six-shooter, which was faithfully done as the

Prophet advised. When the opportune time arrived, Law aimed the revolver

at the Prophet with the intention of killing him. He pulled the trigger but the

gun misfired as did all of the other five loads in the six-shooter. He cursed

because the gun did not discharge, and blamed the boy for not loading the

weapon properly. The boy replied that he had done it to the best of his

ability. Law then aimed at a post and all six loads were discharged.

Years afterwards when Charles Henry Stoddard had emigrated to Utah, and

living in Richmond, Utah, Joseph Smith, the son of the Prophet Joseph and

also the president of the Reorganized Church, visited Stoddard and stayed

over night in his home. This statement Hannah R. Stoddard also affirms as

she saw him in Richmond.

The foregoing data has had from information told to Hannah R. Stoddard by

her grandfather Charles Henry Stoddard, and by oft repeated stories recited

to Adessa Larson Stoddard, by her grandfather George Henry Stoddard, the

oldest son of Charles Henry Stoddard and Anna Telford, and is related to the

best of their knowledge and memory.

In Witness to the truthfulness of the foregoing statement the parties first

before mentioned have hereunto signed their names.

Signed: Hannah R. Larson____________

Signed: Adessa Larsons Christensen____

Town of Ashton )

ss

State of Idaho )

Before me, a Notary Public in and for the State of Idaho, appeared Hannah

R. Larson and Adessa Larsen Christensen and affixed their signatures to the

foregoing statement.

In witness whereof, I have hereunto affixed my Notorial Seal, this 5th day of

October, 1949.

Hiram E. Fuller

Notary Public

"Hannah Rebecca Larson Stoddard, Affidavit, Oct. 15, 1949," LDS Church Archives, Salt Lake

City.

My thanks to H. Michael Marquardt for emailing this to me.

Thing is, there is another version of the story supposedly written by Sarah Stoddard herself, in a diary...

April 1844

Charles had another faith promoting experience. Early this morning, even while the darkness still hemmed out the light of day, Mr. Law, after he had been drinking and planning with his associates through the night, got Charles out of bed to clean and oil his gun for he said he was going to shoot the prophet, only William Law called him "old Joe Smith." Poor Charles was frightened beyond description but Mr. Law stood over him and prodded him with his foot when Charles hesitated through fright and anxiety. Finally when Mr. Law was satisfied with the way the gun was working, he put one bullet in. He boasted that he could kill the prophet with one shot and sent Charles to bring the prophet.

He ran as fast as he could and delivered the message but begged the prophet not to go to Mr. Law's as Mr. Law was drunk and Charles was afraid he would carry though on his threat to shoot the prophet in cold blood. In spite of Charles' protestations the prophet rose from bed and dressed.

It was breaking dawn by this time. As they walked the few blocks from the mansion house to the Law residence the prophet reassured Charles that no harm would come to him that day. Charles was frightened and he said it kept racing through his mind "I am the one that cleaned the gun that is going to be used to kill the prophet" until he was sick with fear. The prophet in a final attempt to calm my dear son uttered the fateful words, "Mr. Law may some day kill me, Charles, but it won't be today'

As they approached their destination Mr. Law came staggering out of the house and his only greeting was angry boasts of what he intended to do. The prophet said kindly and unafraid, "You sent for me, Mr. Law?" to which Mr. Law replied with oaths that he had and that he was now going to do Nauvoo, Illinois, and indeed the whole world a great favor by disposing of the prophet with one shot.

Calmly the prophet unbuttoned his shirt and bared his chest, then said, "I'm ready now, Mr. Law." Charles said at this point he nearly fainted. Fear strangled him until he was speechless and paralyzed, unable to move a muscle.

Mr. Law paced a few steps, turned, aimed, and pressed the trigger. There was complete silence, then the air rang with profanity and Mr. Law turned on Charles, accusing him of fixing the gun so it would not go off and threatening to kill even Charles, my innocent, frightened, but faithful son. The prophet, to divert Mr. Law's blame of Charles suggested that a can be placed on the fence post for Mr. Law to take a practice shot. Relieved, Charles ran for a can and laid it on its side on the post. Mr Law paced back, took aim and fired. His 'one shot' streaked through the exact center of the bottom of that can. Mr. Law is well-known for his marksmanship even when drunk. Even Mr. Law was quiet as if stunned.

The prophet buttoned up his shirt, gave Charles a meaningful look and then said, "If you are finished with me now, Mr. Law, I have other things needing to be done. Good morning."

That was supposedly the last entry in her diary. Now what's interesting is there is another story with Dennison Lott Harris & one Robert Scott (a young man who lived for a time with the Laws), how he was recruited by Joseph to infiltrate the "Law Conspiracy" to kill Joseph. It's a fantastical tale without a shred of truth to it. I can't get into it, but I've debunked it at length. And who was the bodyguard that was the liaison between the boys and Smith in this tall tale? John SCOTT (You can read about the story here http://www.mormoninterpreter.com/theres ... st-charge/ It's the Interpreter so...)

There is a story though, a true one about someone who did pull a gun on Smith and it was Charles Foster (quoted above). What did Joseph do? Had him arrested and fined. Why in the world would he not with Law? It's just fabulously silly. And for the coup de grâce, I offer another Utah tall tale, complete with affidavit. You will just love this one. Walmart. Law admitted to firing the shot that killed Joseph! Told by William Law's dying sister to a faithful "saint"...



How low could they go? It seems there was no limit. And...

This podcast is a must hear, all about Walmart. Law and how he was vilified...

https://www.sunstonemagazine.com/histor ... etractors/ (Tom Kimball & D. Michael Quinn)