MG & JLHPROF: From Whence Come Spiritual Experiences?
Posted: Sun Oct 08, 2017 3:43 pm
On another thread, MG opined that evidence of the spiritual cannot be verified by science. Nonetheless, he and JLHPROF provided glimpses into their dualist worldview in which both the spiritual and the material exist and in which faith, as a means of accessing the spiritual, can be relied upon to discern "truth".
Like the rest of us, MG and JLHPROF came into this world in possession of a highly evolved brain encased in a protective skull, and dependent on input from sensory neurons for information about the outside world. This brain can be thought of as a set of neuronal modules that evolved in response to both the social and physical environment in which humans and their ancestors developed over millions of years, and which can still be physically altered by experience during one's lifetime.
The intent here is to show that these brain structures*, or modules, especially the components of the cortex and limbic system can, and often do, work together to generate all of the reported phenomena that religionists attribute to the spirit, or consider to be spiritual.
Listings of these phenomenon, or claimed spiritual manifestations, and the explanations of how they are generated by healthy brains, as well diseased, electromagnetically stimulated, or chemically altered brains, are the subject many hundreds of research papers and any number of books.
Perceived religious experiences arising from ingesting natural products such as DMT or ayahuasca, as well as from electromagnetic stimulation of the brain using devices such as the God helmet, have been subjects of earlier posts and entire threads on MDB. This OP will be mainly focused on the religious or transcendent experiences generated by healthy and diseased brains, without exogenous chemical or electromagnetic stimulation.
Individuals with temporal lobe epilepsy can have partial seizures during which they report having intense mystical or transcendent experiences. These are often interpreted as religious to the extent that some with this condition have reported direct communication with God. Many individuals with temporal lobe epilepsy undergo slowly developing changes in personality, becoming more religious and often interested in philosophical aspects of religion as a result of the condition.
Temporal lobe partial seizures of the type described here are not associated with the convulsions and loss of muscular control that one sees in a grand mal seizure, for example. Those experiencing these partial seizure episodes are usually unable to speak and may feel tremors or otherwise have limited ability to move.
Temporal lobe epilepsy can be idiopathic (spontaneously arising from an unknown cause). This disorder can be caused by brain tumors, or kinetic brain injury. There may also be a genetic component. Twin studies, wherein genetically identical twins were raised in different home environments, indicate a genetic component to temporal lobe epilepsy, as well as to religiosity in general.
Top-rated among religious brains are those with a temporal lobe disorder giving rise to a set of behavioral phenomena known as Geschwind syndrome. Among the symptoms used for diagnosis are hypergraphia (prolific writing), and a tendency to (often inappropriately) continue conversations once started. Symptoms of most interest here are hyperreligiosity, and decreased libido. St. Joan of Arc and St. Paul of Tarsus are historical religious figures who some scientists believe were likely to have suffered from temporal lobe epilepsy
Nineteenth century Russian novelist Fyodor Dostoyevsky showed some symptoms of Geschwind, including hypergraphia. He described his seizure experiences as a '--happiness unthinkable in the normal state and unimaginable for anyone who hasn’t experienced it… I am in perfect harmony with myself and the entire universe'.
Non-religious individuals with temporal lobe epilepsy often interpret their seizure experiences as transcendent, but non-religious. Here is how an Australian attorney and secularist describes her temporal lobe epilepsy experiences.
Numerous studies of brain function, as related to religiosity, have been reported. While the temporal lobes are clearly involved in the formation and maintenance of religious belief, the frontal lobes of the cerebral cortex are also indicated, as is the interaction between the temporal lobes and components of the limbic system.
What is clear is that both evolution and the environment play a role. Professor Jordan Grafman from the US National Institute of Neurological Disorders and Stroke sums things up pretty well.
The main point here is that the best explanation for the phenomenon of transcendent religious experience and belief is that it is an evolutionarily engineered feature of the human brain. No invisible, external, supernatural, or "spiritual" force is involved or required.
As mentioned elsewhere on the board, the fact that religiosity is pretty much universal, with hundreds or thousands of gods claimed, makes the probability that supernatural gods even exist vanishingly small. The chances that the Mormon Elohim exists are even smaller, owing to the internally inconsistent and logically contradictory attributes ascribed to him.
Those who depend on "spiritual" feelings as an integral part of their lives and worldview should at least have the discernment to properly attribute the source and characteristics of these feelings, keeping in mind that a delusion is a belief that is held with strong conviction despite superior evidence to the contrary.
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*Describing brain as comprised of forebrain, midbrain and hindbrain, as often taught in school, is not very helpful in understanding brain function. Listed roughly according to evolutionary age and to some extent function, the main structures in the brain are: the brain stem, limbic system, cerebellum and cerebrum. The most recently evolved of these structures is the cerebrum with its wrinkled or folded outer layers, the cortex. The cerebral cortex is sectioned into four lobes. Among these is temporal lobe is associated with perception, recognition of auditory stimuli, and speech. It also has an important role in processing and embedding memory.
The cerebrum, cerebellum, and parts of the limbic system are separated into two essentially mirror image hemispheres. As discussed in earlier threads on this board, strong evidence for the 'brain as mind' has emerged from the results of operations to disconnect the two hemispheres of the brain by severing the corpus callosum allowing the separated hemispheres to operate essentially independently. It is possible for humans to function pretty much normally with the hemispheres of the brain disconnected and even with substantial portions of one hemisphere removed.
MG wrote:Hard science cannot be used to 'prove' that faith is a dependable tool/method for discerning truth.
The rules of observation/experimentation can be applied, but they are applied to that which cannot be handled or seen through the natural senses.
So at the end of the day, you folks, the secularists, are going to have the advantage in proving your views to be right/true.
Like the rest of us, MG and JLHPROF came into this world in possession of a highly evolved brain encased in a protective skull, and dependent on input from sensory neurons for information about the outside world. This brain can be thought of as a set of neuronal modules that evolved in response to both the social and physical environment in which humans and their ancestors developed over millions of years, and which can still be physically altered by experience during one's lifetime.
The intent here is to show that these brain structures*, or modules, especially the components of the cortex and limbic system can, and often do, work together to generate all of the reported phenomena that religionists attribute to the spirit, or consider to be spiritual.
Listings of these phenomenon, or claimed spiritual manifestations, and the explanations of how they are generated by healthy brains, as well diseased, electromagnetically stimulated, or chemically altered brains, are the subject many hundreds of research papers and any number of books.
Perceived religious experiences arising from ingesting natural products such as DMT or ayahuasca, as well as from electromagnetic stimulation of the brain using devices such as the God helmet, have been subjects of earlier posts and entire threads on MDB. This OP will be mainly focused on the religious or transcendent experiences generated by healthy and diseased brains, without exogenous chemical or electromagnetic stimulation.
Individuals with temporal lobe epilepsy can have partial seizures during which they report having intense mystical or transcendent experiences. These are often interpreted as religious to the extent that some with this condition have reported direct communication with God. Many individuals with temporal lobe epilepsy undergo slowly developing changes in personality, becoming more religious and often interested in philosophical aspects of religion as a result of the condition.
Temporal lobe partial seizures of the type described here are not associated with the convulsions and loss of muscular control that one sees in a grand mal seizure, for example. Those experiencing these partial seizure episodes are usually unable to speak and may feel tremors or otherwise have limited ability to move.
Temporal lobe epilepsy can be idiopathic (spontaneously arising from an unknown cause). This disorder can be caused by brain tumors, or kinetic brain injury. There may also be a genetic component. Twin studies, wherein genetically identical twins were raised in different home environments, indicate a genetic component to temporal lobe epilepsy, as well as to religiosity in general.
Top-rated among religious brains are those with a temporal lobe disorder giving rise to a set of behavioral phenomena known as Geschwind syndrome. Among the symptoms used for diagnosis are hypergraphia (prolific writing), and a tendency to (often inappropriately) continue conversations once started. Symptoms of most interest here are hyperreligiosity, and decreased libido. St. Joan of Arc and St. Paul of Tarsus are historical religious figures who some scientists believe were likely to have suffered from temporal lobe epilepsy
Nineteenth century Russian novelist Fyodor Dostoyevsky showed some symptoms of Geschwind, including hypergraphia. He described his seizure experiences as a '--happiness unthinkable in the normal state and unimaginable for anyone who hasn’t experienced it… I am in perfect harmony with myself and the entire universe'.
Non-religious individuals with temporal lobe epilepsy often interpret their seizure experiences as transcendent, but non-religious. Here is how an Australian attorney and secularist describes her temporal lobe epilepsy experiences.
I'm not religious, so I didn't think it was a religious moment. It just made you feel connected to the earth, to past, present, to future, to everybody else. I don’t think you get that experience unless you're on some sort of drug.
Numerous studies of brain function, as related to religiosity, have been reported. While the temporal lobes are clearly involved in the formation and maintenance of religious belief, the frontal lobes of the cerebral cortex are also indicated, as is the interaction between the temporal lobes and components of the limbic system.
What is clear is that both evolution and the environment play a role. Professor Jordan Grafman from the US National Institute of Neurological Disorders and Stroke sums things up pretty well.
Jordan Grafman wrote: Religious belief and behavior are a hallmark of human life, with no accepted animal equivalent, and found in all cultures. Our results are unique in demonstrating that specific components of religious belief are mediated by well-known brain networks, and they support contemporary psychological theories that ground religious belief within evolutionary-adaptive cognitive functions.
[These latest studies suggest that] the brain is inherently sensitive to believing in almost anything if there are grounds for doing so. But when there is a mystery about something, the same neural machinery is co-opted in the formulation of religious belief
The main point here is that the best explanation for the phenomenon of transcendent religious experience and belief is that it is an evolutionarily engineered feature of the human brain. No invisible, external, supernatural, or "spiritual" force is involved or required.
As mentioned elsewhere on the board, the fact that religiosity is pretty much universal, with hundreds or thousands of gods claimed, makes the probability that supernatural gods even exist vanishingly small. The chances that the Mormon Elohim exists are even smaller, owing to the internally inconsistent and logically contradictory attributes ascribed to him.
Those who depend on "spiritual" feelings as an integral part of their lives and worldview should at least have the discernment to properly attribute the source and characteristics of these feelings, keeping in mind that a delusion is a belief that is held with strong conviction despite superior evidence to the contrary.
___________________________________
*Describing brain as comprised of forebrain, midbrain and hindbrain, as often taught in school, is not very helpful in understanding brain function. Listed roughly according to evolutionary age and to some extent function, the main structures in the brain are: the brain stem, limbic system, cerebellum and cerebrum. The most recently evolved of these structures is the cerebrum with its wrinkled or folded outer layers, the cortex. The cerebral cortex is sectioned into four lobes. Among these is temporal lobe is associated with perception, recognition of auditory stimuli, and speech. It also has an important role in processing and embedding memory.
The cerebrum, cerebellum, and parts of the limbic system are separated into two essentially mirror image hemispheres. As discussed in earlier threads on this board, strong evidence for the 'brain as mind' has emerged from the results of operations to disconnect the two hemispheres of the brain by severing the corpus callosum allowing the separated hemispheres to operate essentially independently. It is possible for humans to function pretty much normally with the hemispheres of the brain disconnected and even with substantial portions of one hemisphere removed.