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Politics over Religion at MD&D

Posted: Wed Dec 06, 2017 6:10 am
by _moksha
Which is stronger, Mormonism or Ultra Conservatism? Usually, they are not in competition since for many members the two are synonymous. However, Trump's non-resident Chief Information Officer, Steve Bannon, has been disparaging Mitt Romney for his missionary service. Putting down a mission? That is blasphemy unless spoken in the name of ultra-conservatism.

Of course posters at the former MAD board support Bannon. He is a good man and can make America march in an orderly fashion once he is finished blowing it up.

Read all about it:

http://www.mormondialogue.org/topic/69938-steve-bannon-criticizes-mitt-romney-for-his-missionary-service/

http://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/363460-bannon-rips-romney-for-moore-criticism-hes-still-bitter

Re: Politics over Religion at MD&D

Posted: Wed Dec 06, 2017 1:37 pm
by _Philo Sofee
A Mormon likes Steve Bannon. That's proof right there the Holy Ghost is on vacation for a few millenia.

Re: Politics over Religion at MD&D

Posted: Wed Dec 06, 2017 2:53 pm
by _Meadowchik
Ultra-conservativism has an obsession with death. So does Mormonism. That's sad, because, so much can be done in this life to make life better for everyone on the planet, if good people focused on that.

Re: Politics over Religion at MD&D

Posted: Wed Dec 06, 2017 3:28 pm
by _Maksutov
Governor Gary Herbert condemned Bannon's remarks.

If Trump thinks he can just beat down the Mormons he has another think coming. :lol:

Re: Politics over Religion at MD&D

Posted: Wed Dec 06, 2017 4:21 pm
by _Stem
I think you're confusing good with "utterly corrupt and wicked", and conservatism with despotism (the GOP is having a similar struggle).

I think it's cute that Bannon/Trump are standing up to the "elite". They are the elite. Everything Bannon's guy has done in office has been to benefit the elite. But I'd love to hear your reasoning why a two Hollywood guys, one of them who worked at Goldman Sachs and the other a wealthy real estate tycoon, are not "the elite".

I'm glad that there are still some principled conservatives left, like Romney and McMullin, who don't advocate for treason or support child molesting judges.

That's Gray over at MD&D. I like that he used the word cute in describing the Bannon/Trump rebellion against the elite. How the uneducated and educated conservative crown jumped on board with Trump claiming rebellion against the elite is beyond me. He said "we need to build a wall" and suddenly he was seen as some poor blue collar worker who spent his life scraping to get buy on honest living, opposing a high level corporate beast who did everything and anything to mow over anyone in their way. Some of the views expressed in that short lived thread are cute. It doesn't matter to them how bankrupt one's morals are, if they can prove themselves to be seen as true "conservatives" they are noble and worth supporting.

Re: Politics over Religion at MD&D

Posted: Wed Dec 06, 2017 4:38 pm
by _Kishkumen
Steve Bannon is a disgusting puss bag coated in goat excrement.

Re: Politics over Religion at MD&D

Posted: Wed Dec 06, 2017 4:41 pm
by _Kishkumen
Stem wrote:That's Gray over at MD&D. I like that he used the word cute in describing the Bannon/Trump rebellion against the elite. How the uneducated and educated conservative crown jumped on board with Trump claiming rebellion against the elite is beyond me. He said "we need to build a wall" and suddenly he was seen as some poor blue collar worker who spent his life scraping to get buy on honest living, opposing a high level corporate beast who did everything and anything to mow over anyone in their way. Some of the views expressed in that short lived thread are cute. It doesn't matter to them how bankrupt one's morals are, if they can prove themselves to be seen as true "conservatives" they are noble and worth supporting.


They are crypto-fascists, not conservatives. Anyone who takes up the banner of Bannon or Trump is a compete chump. Gray is totally right. We see in Bannon and Trump people who understand all too well the tribalism and ignorance of their dupes and exploit it to the max--for their own benefit and at a high cost to the very same sad souls whom they tricked into supporting them.

What Bannon said about Romney made my blood boil. But, of course, it was entirely calculated. Bannon is out to destroy our nation and turn us into a new Fascist Germany; whatever he has to say to achieve that end he will say.

Re: Politics over Religion at MD&D

Posted: Wed Dec 06, 2017 5:02 pm
by _Chuck Finley
Meadowchik wrote:Ultra-conservativism has an obsession with death.

What do you mean?

Re: Politics over Religion at MD&D

Posted: Wed Dec 06, 2017 5:54 pm
by _Symmachus
Which is stronger, Mormonism or Ultra Conservatism?


They have become the same thing. Bannon's comments will be explained away as necessary for the Alabama campaign (I expect a liberal Mormon blogger to post about this soon, lathering us in nuance and suggesting Patrick Mason's book). But let's not forget that Bob Bennett got thrown out of the senate by the tea party.

The Church's approach to Trump and his movement is what drove me finally to resign my membership after more than 10 years of total inactivity. I always thought resigning was just a gesture, which it is, but I realized in the end that it is not a meaningless one for the individual. My head could no longer contain the awareness that my membership in the LDS Church inherently associated me with an organization that had no problem with Trump and even offered tacit support to his campaign. The Church will exert tremendous pressure on members over a damned building project in Provo, but Dallin Oaks couldn't ask his brother Bob (a former general authority himself) not to speak at a Trump rally? They couldn't exert pressure on Julie Beck to just stay at home that one day? These assholes had spent decades telling women to stay home! That was a tacit signal to faithful Mormons that it was ok, even a good thing, to vote for the Orange Pussy Grabber.

The Church has its moral priorities and has defended its right to interfere in the public domain when those priorities were on the line. Fine. But the tacit support last year, the silence this year, and the recent photo op with the Pussy Grabber amid the giddy glances of Hatch, Eyring, Nelson, to say nothing of the Relief Society president willingly grasping the hand that has grasped so many women unwillingly—all of these confirm to me that my choice was the right one. I have my moral priorities too—truth, rule of law, individual rights, fairness and equity, justice, liberal democracy, the sanctity of courts, respect for traditional institutions, respect for education—and they don't align at all with a Church that supports such a contemptible and hideous regime.

The Church hierarchy drives the culture of the Church in part, but since it is ultimately made up of people from that culture, it is also driven by it. Seeing the comments over there reminds me that all of this "never Trumpism" among Mormons is pure horse crap conjured up by people whose main problem is that the word "pussy" makes them squeamish. After some fiery talk, Romney practically threw himself at Trump, Flake voted for the tax bill and thus lived up to his name, and meanwhile the Church has put its stamp of approval on this fake president. Even if people do voice their disagreements with Trump, his cult followers in Mormonism can easily shut down any moral arguments by pointing to a smiling Eyring: the Church has made it ok to support him. Yes, I know they don't want to appear partisan—although thanks to the tax bill they'll be able to do so without any problems soon—but that just gets back to my reason for wanting to resign. The Church will throw its resources and manpower behind a campaign to keep 1% of the population from getting married, but they are totally silent when it comes to an oligarchic coup spearheaded by an authoritarian bully. They even go farther than that: they allows themselves to be co-opted. Because all they had to do was ask Bob and Julie to stay home that Saturday, because all they had to do was not take that picture on Monday, it is clear where their ultimate sympathies lie. Of course they support Trump, and unlike his wives they can rest easy under him, as this post-coital photo-op shows, as long as he guarantees their right to flout federal regulations and interfere however they wish (i.e. "religious freedom").

The only thing about Mormons and Trump that is more galling to me are the self-righteous Mormon intellectuals who claim to be liberal. For them, this is all merely "troubling' and "problematic." But you idiots need to shut the “F” up and support the Brethren, or shut the “F” up in general, or ideally blow some wind behind your rhetorical sails by resigning. The Church doesn't take you seriously because the only thing your sincere about is your nostalgia for a more innocent version of Mormonism. No one else should take you seriously either. As it is now, your whining blogposts and laughably self-indulgent open letters to Donald Trump, in which you pose as spokeswomen and men for all Mormons, have as much as credibility as Jeff Flake's speeches.

Re: Politics over Religion at MD&D

Posted: Wed Dec 06, 2017 7:34 pm
by _Kishkumen
This really strikes home, Symmachus. You are absolutely right about the moral bankruptcy of the LDS Church, which has become just one more prop of the regime du jour. They should have run away from Trump and made a big show of it, but instead they decided to play footsie with him while pretending to take a stand. One wonders how much of that newly "liberated" Utah land they and their wealthy members have their eyes on acquiring. Surely this was one of the deals cut to get their support.

Traitors.