Who will be the next leader of the shrinking cult?

[_SteelHead]

The king is dead.

Long live the king.

[_I have a question]

There will be no white smoke from a chapel chimney. There will be no church convention, no lobbying and no election.

Mormons don’t do succession drama. When the head of their church dies, as Thomas S. Monson did on Tuesday, the next leader is chosen from the top ranks based strictly on seniority. The system is intended to avoid any hint of instability or intrigue, but it practically guarantees that the president will be elderly — even very elderly.

President Monson was 90, and had served as prophet and head of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints for nearly 10 years. Following a tradition that dates from the church’s early years, he is to be succeeded by the longest-serving member of a church governing body known as the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles.

Right now, that man is President Russell M. Nelson, a former heart surgeon, who is 93. Next in line after him is Dallin H. Oaks, a former president of Brigham Young University and state Supreme Court justice. He is 85. You have to pass four more people in the line of succession before you get to someone born after World War II.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/03/us/f ... onson.html

When put like that, staggering.

[_SuperDell]

Quote:
A corporation sole is a legal entity consisting of a single ("sole") incorporated office, occupied by a single ("sole") natural person. A corporation sole is one of two types of corporation, the other being a corporation aggregate.[1][2] This allows corporations (often religious corporations or Commonwealth governments) to pass without interval in time from one office holder to the next successor-in-office, giving the positions legal continuity with subsequent office holders having identical powers and possessions to their predecessors.

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This defines the Corporation. It does not say anything about how the new head is chosen. The statement was this: It’s stipulated in the Corporations articles of association that the longest serving apostle automatically becomes President.

Can you show where in the Corporate by-laws or paperwork the stipulation for succession is written?

[_I have a question]

Quote:
A corporation sole is a legal entity consisting of a single ("sole") incorporated office, occupied by a single ("sole") natural person. A corporation sole is one of two types of corporation, the other being a corporation aggregate.[1][2] This allows corporations (often religious corporations or Commonwealth governments) to pass without interval in time from one office holder to the next successor-in-office, giving the positions legal continuity with subsequent office holders having identical powers and possessions to their predecessors.

--------------------------

This defines the Corporation. It does not say anything about how the new head is chosen. The statement was this: It’s stipulated in the Corporations articles of association that the longest serving apostle automatically becomes President.

Can you show where in the Corporate by-laws or paperwork the stipulation for succession is written?

I linked to it. Pay your $2.

Or

http://mormondisclosures.blogspot.co.uk ... chive.html
(Look for the 1940 document)

[_Mittens]

Old man Nelson can't be President unless his personal aides can scoop him out of bed, dress him up and parade him before the church like a store mannequin ready to perform the Mormon puppet act. I predict he's going to be disappointing and flop.

Nelson did tell us no Mormonism in the Book of Mormon

The Book of Mormon affirms:

The individual identity of Heavenly Father and His Beloved Son, Jesus Christ.
The necessity of the Fall of Adam and the wisdom of Eve, that men might have joy.

Is that it ?

https://www.lds.org/general-conference/ ... t?lang=eng

I can make a bigger list of what's not in the Book of Mormon

1. The plurality of Gods (Mormon Doctrine pp. 576, 577)
2. The baptism for the dead done in holy temples (Mormon Doctrine pp. 72,73)
3. Celestial marriage which no unworthy member or outsider can attend (Mormon Doctrine pp. 117, 118)
4. Polygamy needed to become a God (Journal of Discourse, Vol. II p. 269)
Jacob 1:15
And now it came to pass that the people of Nephi, under the reign of the second king, began to grow hard in their hearts, and indulge themselves somewhat in wicked practices, such as like unto David of old desiring many wives and concubines, and also Solomon, his son.
Jacob 2:24
Behold, David and Solomon truly had many wives and concubines, which thing was abominable before me, saith the Lord.
Jacob 2:27
Wherefore, my brethren, hear me, and hearken to the word of the Lord: For there shall not any man among you have save it be one wife; and concubines he shall have none.
Mosiah 11:2
For behold, he did not keep the commandments of God, but ... he had many wives and concubines.
Ether 10:5
Riplakish did not do that which was right in the sight of the Lord, for he did have many wives and concubines.

5. Blacks were cursed with a dark skin (Mormon Doctrine p. 109)
6. You can become a God if you are worthy; celestial marriage required (Mormon Doctrine p. 118)
7. We were all pre-existent spirits (Mormon Doctrine p. 589)
8. God has a body of flesh and bones (Mormon Doctrine p. 289)
9. We have a Heavenly Mother as well as a Heavenly Father (Mormon Doctrine p. 516)
10. There are three levels of heaven. To go to the highest kingdom, you must be a Mormon. Honorable persons go to the Terrestrial kingdom. The dishonest, liars, sorcerers, adulterers and whoremongers go to the Telestial kingdom. (Mormon Doctrine pp. 420, 421)
11. God and his wife achieved a celestial marriage (Celestial Marriage Manual p. 1)
12. Heavenly Father died just like Jesus (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith p. 346)
13. God was once just like us and progressed to godhood (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith p. 345)
14. God has a father and His Father has a Father, etc. (Mormon Doctrine p. 322)
15. Jesus and Lucifer are spirit brothers (Mormon Doctrine p. 192)
16. Jesus and Lucifer each had a plan to people the earth. Jesus' plan was chosen and caused Lucifer to rebel and he and the angels that followed him were cast out of heaven. (Mormon Doctrine p. 193)
17. God lives near a star called Kolob (Mormon Doctrine p. 428)
18. Temple endowments are so sacred that you must be worthy to enter (Mormon Doctrine pp. 619, 620)
19. Jesus was not able to keep his church together (History of the Church Vol. 6 pp. 408, 409)
20. In the future, you will need Joseph Smith's consent in order to enter the celestial kingdom (Journal of Discourse Vol. 7 p.289)
21. Not everything you'll need to know concerning salvation will be recorded in the Bible but there will be additional scriptures (Mormon Doctrine p. 83)"
22. Jesus was Married and Practiced polygamy (Journal of Discourses, vol. 2, p.210).
(Journal of Discourses, vol.2, p.82).
(Journal of Discourses, vol.4, p.259).
23. No eternal hell
LDS Apostle John Widtsoe declared, "In the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, there is no hell. All will find a measure of salvation" (E. & R., p. 216). Yet, the B. of M. says, "The devil cheateth their souls, and leadeth them away carefully down to hell and behold others he flattereth away, and telleth them there is no hell" (II Nephi 28:21-22). Thus, the B. of M. explains where Mormonism got its doctrine of no hell!

The B. of M. also says, "If ye have procrastinated the day of your repentance even until death, behold, ye have become subjected to the spirit of the devil, and he doth seal you his; therefore, the Spirit of the Lord hath withdrawn from you and hath no place in you, and the devil hath all power over you; and this is the final state of the wicked" (Alma 34:35).

24. Animal sacrifice after Jesus' blood was shed

RESTORATION OF BLOOD SACRIFICES. We are living in the dispensation of the fulness of times into which all things are to be gathered, and all things are to be restored since the beginning. Even this earth is to be restored to the condition which prevailed before Adam's transgression. 44 Now in the nature of things, the law of sacrifice will have to be restored, or all things which were decreed by the Lord would not be restored. It will be necessary, therefore, for the sons of Levi, who offered the blood sacrifices anciently in Israel, to offer such a sacrifice again to round out and complete this ordinance in this dispensation. Sacrifice by the shedding of blood was instituted in the days of Adam and of necessity will have to be restored. 45

The sacrifice of animals will be done to complete the restoration when the temple spoken of is built; at the beginning of the millennium, or in the restoration, blood sacrifices will be performed long enough to complete the fulness of the restoration in this dispensation. Afterwards sacrifice will be of some other character.

3 Nephi 9:19 Jesus was supposed to have said: "And ye shall offer up unto me no more the shedding of blood; yea, your sacrifices and your burnt offerings shall be done away, for I will accept none of your sacrifices and your burnt offerings."

25. Atonement happened in Garden of Gethsemane

The Church of Jesus Christ of latter-day Saints does not view the atonement of Christ in the biblical and historical Christian manner. Instead of the atonement occurring on the cross, Mormonism teaches that the atonement occurred primarily in the Garden of Gethsemane when Jesus shed His blood. Please consider the following quotes from a BYU professor and the Mormon apostle Bruce McConkie.
•BYU professor Robert J. Matthews, who on page 282 of his book, A Bible! A Bible!, wrote, "It was in Gethsemane, on the slopes of the Mount of Olives, that Jesus made his perfect atonement by the shedding of his blood-more so than on the cross."
•Mormon Apostle Bruce McConkie, stated, "Where and under what circumstances was the atoning sacrifice of the Son of God made? Was it on the Cross of Calvary or in the Garden of Gethsemane? It is to the Cross of Christ that most Christians look when centering their attention upon the infinite and eternal atonement. And certainly the sacrifice of our Lord was completed when he was lifted up by men; also, that part of his life and suffering is more dramatic and, perhaps, more soul stirring. But in reality the pain and suffering, the triumph and grandeur, of the atonement took place primarily in Gethsemane," (Doctrinal New Testament Commentary, vol. 1, p. 774,
1 Nephi 11:33
And I, Nephi, saw that he was lifted up upon the cross and slain for the sins of the world.

26. Eternal Progression
27. Maintaining genealogical records
28. Mormons hold keys to the kingdom
29 . Eternal Families
30 . creation from matter and Ex Nihilo wrong
Jacob 4:9 For behold, by the power of his a word man came upon the face of the earth, which earth was created by the power of his word. Wherefore, if God being able to speak and the world was, and to speak and man was created, O then, why not able to command the dearth, or the workmanship of his hands upon the face of it, according to his will and pleasure?
Psalm 33:9: For he spoke, and it came to be; he commanded, and it stood firm.

31. Exaltation
32. Everyone will be saved through Grace just not exalted
32. God is not omniscient
God himself is increasing and progressing in knowledge, power, and dominion, and will do so, worlds without end." Wilford Woodruff, Journal of Discourses Vol. 6:120
33. Garden of Eden in Missouri
34. Continuing Revelation
35. Mormon Plan of salvation
36. The ROCK is revelation rather than Jesus
Helaman 5:12
12 And now, my sons, remember, remember that it is upon the rock of our Redeemer, who is Christ, the Son of God, that ye must build your foundation; that when the devil shall send forth his mighty winds, yea, his shafts in the whirlwind, yea, when all his hail and his mighty storm shall beat upon you, it shall have no power over you to drag you down to the gulf of misery and endless wo, because of the rock upon which ye are built, which is a sure foundation, a foundation whereon if men build they cannot fall.


37. God incomprehensible wrong

Mosiah 4:9 Believe in God; believe that he is, and that he created all things, both in heaven and in earth; believe that he has all wisdom, and all power, both in heaven and in earth; believe that man doth not comprehend all the things which the Lord can comprehend.

38. Sacred underwear

39. Families are forever

40. Michael, known in mortality as Adam,

41. Mormon sealings

[_SuperDell]

Quote:
A corporation sole is a legal entity consisting of a single ("sole") incorporated office, occupied by a single ("sole") natural person. A corporation sole is one of two types of corporation, the other being a corporation aggregate.[1][2] This allows corporations (often religious corporations or Commonwealth governments) to pass without interval in time from one office holder to the next successor-in-office, giving the positions legal continuity with subsequent office holders having identical powers and possessions to their predecessors.

--------------------------

This defines the Corporation. It does not say anything about how the new head is chosen. The statement was this: It’s stipulated in the Corporations articles of association that the longest serving apostle automatically becomes President.

Can you show where in the Corporate by-laws or paperwork the stipulation for succession is written?

I linked to it. Pay your $2.

Or

http://mormondisclosures.blogspot.co.uk ... chive.html
(Look for the 1940 document)

Says "President or acting President or another member appointed".

Not automatically the senior guy if another member can be appointed.

As for paying $2.00 - they apparently don't have provision to let me send a check for payment. Only plastic. Why be so pissy?

[_I have a question]

As for paying $2.00 - they apparently don't have provision to let me send a check for payment. Only plastic. Why be so pissy?

Pissy? You couldn’t handle the pissy...

I’m not being pissy, so sorry if that’s how I come across.

My reading of the Corp Sole articles (I think Quinn may have covered it somewhere too, but I may be wrong) is that they have to have a succession provision within them so that there is no ‘gap’ of ownership if the current ‘sole’ dies or resigns. It’s an automatic succession to the leader of the Q12, who is always the longest serving apostle and who always gets the throne. That’s my reading of it.

[_Jesse Pinkman]

The order of succession (with current age) is as follows:
Nelson - 93
Oaks - 85
Ballard - 89
Holland - 77
Eyring - 84

When you look at this list of the next potentially 20 years worth of leaders, do you see any agents for change?
Neither do I.

Holland seems to be in the best health at this point and probably has the potential to serve as president for one of the longer runs during his turn. I see Holland reinforcing what the current LDS Church promotes. He is more of an academic than a businessman, so his run will be interesting from that perspective.