Savannah's testimony

[_Jesse Pinkman]

Bumping in case anyone has heard anything new about this.

[_Lemmie]

Yeah, the context makes that hard to watch. On the plus side, that kind of defiance reads as having support of her parents.

It seems she did, given the accounts.

From the June 20 CNN article [shortly after the event], some further information, including comments from the family and Savannah:

The family gathered, walking Savannah through the good and the bad that could come from her speech. They walked through what the Mormon Church teaches about same-sex attraction. "We let her make that decision, not us," Josh said pointedly. "I had nothing to do with ... coercing her or anything." Heather remembers Savannah's rationale. "I want to be a voice for those that might be positive," she recalls Savannah saying. "I want them to know that I'm an ally. That they're safe with me. I want them to know that it's OK to be Mormon and be gay."

She also wanted to garner more respect for gays in her church, something she feels is lacking. "We came to the conclusion it wasn't our place; we couldn't silence her," said Heather. "It would be giving her a bigger message that she wasn't allowed to speak or there was something wrong with her." So, Savannah went to work writing. Draft after draft, she began crafting her message. She decided on giving testimony on Fast Sunday, which is traditionally when Mormons hold testimony meetings. "It's sort of what you believe in," Savannah says of testimony. "It's your spiritual talk." An emailed statement to CNN from the local bishop, Judd Law, said, "It is common for members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints to stand before a congregation of families and share feelings and beliefs -- a testimony -- during a worship service." The day had arrived. Savannah put on a tie and battled her anxiety, making her way to the rostrum.

Friends of her's began quietly recording videos as a "keepsake," which they later gave to the family. The family then provided that unedited, raw video to CNN. Edited versions of the video have since been published on social media; Savannah first told her story on an LGBT Mormon podcast, "I Like to Look for Rainbows."

She began speaking. "Hi, my name is Savannah and I want to share my testimony with you." Her voice didn't betray her nerves. Savannah read slowly, focused on getting her testimony out. She was scared to see people's faces and their reaction to her testimony so she did not look up once to see their reactions. Then Savannah said it; she came out as gay in front of her congregation. "God loves me just this way, because he loves all his creations," she said in the speech. "I do believe he made me this way on purpose." She didn't stop with theology. Savannah wanted her congregation to know about her hopes and dreams, too. For Savannah, even at 12, it's simple. She wants to love herself and not feel shame for being who she is. "I hope to find a partner and have a great job. I hope to get married and have a family," she said. "I know these dreams and wishes are good and right. I know I can have all of these things as a lesbian and be happy." Shortly after that, the mic suddenly cut out. It's unclear what exactly happened, but one of the church leaders leaned over and began speaking to Savannah. "I thought it was broken at first. So, I turned around to talk to him," she said. "And then he told me to sit down." Despite repeated requests to church headquarters and Law, the bishop, they did not explain why Savannah's mic ceased to work. On a Mormon Church website titled "Mormon and Gay," it offers the following advice on Mormons who want to come out: "If you decide to share your experiences of feeling same-sex attraction or to openly identify as gay, you should be supported and treated with kindness and respect, both at home and in church." In the video, Savannah returns to her seat as murmured chatter continues around her.

"I was telling her that she was perfect and beautiful," says Heather. A church leader stood up and made a small speech as Savannah was sitting down, in part saying, "I also want to recognize that we are all children of God. And that we are loved by our heavenly Father. And I have no doubt that heavenly Father has made us all unique in different ways. For that, I am grateful." In the emailed statement to CNN, Law took issue with the recorded video, saying it was unauthorized. Additionally, he said that a "group of visitors jubilantly left the service. ... Everyone is welcome and understands the standards of decorum and behavior if they decide to participate. It is unfortunate that this group of adults chose to violate them." Law said the video was being exploited for "political purposes." But Savannah's parents don't see it that way. They say they didn't witness anyone being disruptive. They also say there was no "group" present. "Savannah invited a few close friends as allies," Heather tells CNN, responding to the statement from the local bishop. "There was no group." The family did leave shortly after. Heather says Savannah was distraught and crying. Savannah says she was feeling a mixture of emotions. She was confused because she didn't know what was going on, she was happy because she finally came out at church and "felt accepted." But she was sad because she couldn't finish her speech.
http://www.cnn.com/2017/06/19/us/coming ... index.html

[_cinepro]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MPCtRkL5EMg

Sad.

"Can you sit DOWN??!?!"

I hope she has parents who love her enough to GTFO.

Likely not.

The weirdest thing about Savannah's speech is that it shows that Mormon critics can be just as willing to create mythological martyrs as their religious counterparts.

There is nothing surprising or shocking about what happened to Savannah during that meeting. Anyone with half a brain and even a rudimentary understanding of LDS Sacrament Meetings could have predicted how it would have gone. The saddest thing is that, to the degree that Savannah was upset by being told to sit down, her mother stupidly or intentionally failed to warn her that if she got up and started teaching false doctrine in Sacrament meeting, that was the likely outcome.

Also, the fact that Savannah was apparently somewhat close to the Bishop of the ward and a) prepared her speech over the course of several months without once talking to him about it and then b) delivered the speech on a Sunday when he wasn't there shows a severe lack of respect and/or judgement.

[_Lemmie]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MPCtRkL5EMg

Sad.

"Can you sit DOWN??!?!"

I hope she has parents who love her enough to GTFO.

Likely not.

The weirdest thing about Savannah's speech is that it shows that Mormon critics can be just as willing to create mythological martyrs as their religious counterparts.

There is nothing surprising or shocking about what happened to Savannah during that meeting. Anyone with half a brain and even a rudimentary understanding of LDS Sacrament Meetings could have predicted how it would have gone. The saddest thing is that, to the degree that Savannah was upset by being told to sit down, her mother stupidly or intentionally failed to warn her that if she got up and started teaching false doctrine in Sacrament meeting, that was the likely outcome.

[The family gathered, walking Savannah through the good and the bad that could come from her speech...

Also, the fact that Savannah was apparently somewhat close to the Bishop of the ward and a) prepared her speech over the course of several months without once talking to him about it and then b) delivered the speech on a Sunday when he wasn't there shows a severe lack of respect and/or judgement.

Really? In what way?

[_I have a question]

There is nothing surprising or shocking about what happened to Savannah during that meeting. Anyone with half a brain and even a rudimentary understanding of LDS Sacrament Meetings could have predicted how it would have gone.

The fact that it was predictable does not mean it was not surprising nor shocking.

The saddest thing is that, to the degree that Savannah was upset by being told to sit down, her mother stupidly or intentionally failed to warn her that if she got up and started teaching false doctrine in Sacrament meeting, that was the likely outcome.

How do you know her mother hadn’t forewarned her?
The saddest thing is actually the Church’s policy and discrimination towards gay people.

Also, the fact that Savannah was apparently somewhat close to the Bishop of the ward and a) prepared her speech over the course of several months without once talking to him about it and then b) delivered the speech on a Sunday when he wasn't there shows a severe lack of respect and/or judgement.

Yeah, because this is all about how the Bishop feels.

[_Polygamy-Porter]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MPCtRkL5EMg

Sad.

"Can you sit DOWN??!?!"

I hope she has parents who love her enough to GTFO.

Likely not.

The weirdest thing about Savannah's speech is that it shows that Mormon critics can be just as willing to create mythological martyrs as their religious counterparts.

There is nothing surprising or shocking about what happened to Savannah during that meeting. Anyone with half a brain and even a rudimentary understanding of LDS Sacrament Meetings could have predicted how it would have gone. The saddest thing is that, to the degree that Savannah was upset by being told to sit down, her mother stupidly or intentionally failed to warn her that if she got up and started teaching false doctrine in Sacrament meeting, that was the likely outcome.

False doctrine???? How can something that is demonstrably false be presented falsely?

Also, the fact that Savannah was apparently somewhat close to the Bishop of the ward and a) prepared her speech over the course of several months without once talking to him about it and then b) delivered the speech on a Sunday when he wasn't there shows a severe lack of respect and/or judgement.

Lack of respect? You seem to know a lot about this ward...

How goes your double life cinepro? Got any older teens about to go preach a demonstrably false religion?

[_moksha]

... her mother stupidly or intentionally failed to warn her that if she got up and started teaching false doctrine in Sacrament meeting, that was the likely outcome.

Excellent point. Plus phone records obtained by FAIRMormon under the Utah Freedom of Religious Liberties Act of 2017, clearly indicates that this false doctrine came about as part of a collusion between Satan and Savannah during three different calls to Outer Darkness.

[_cinepro]

The fact that it was predictable does not mean it was not surprising nor shocking.

It's my understanding that something that is predictable, by definition, can't be "surprising." How do you understand it?

[_cinepro]

False doctrine???? How can something that is demonstrably false be presented falsely?

I don't know what your frame of reference on this is. Whether or not what Savannah was saying was objectively "true", or "true" to her personally, the act of getting up in front of a ward in F&T meeting puts a person in a certain situation for which there are pretty standard expectations. We might wish that it were an open-mic forum where anyone was free to get up and say anything they wanted, but that just isn't the case (in spite of the numerous questionable "testimonies" we have all heard over the years.)

We also might wish we live in a world where someone who gets up in a F&T meeting and makes statements that clearly contradict current Church teachings and/or doctrines will be lauded and allowed to say whatever they want, but that clearly has never been the case. Anyone who stands up and says such things should expect to be asked to sit down. Even Savannah.

I would expect this to be true in any religion or group setting. There is a local group of Mac enthusiasts that meet regularly at the library to talk about Macs. If I went to the group and asked to speak to them and then spent a minute and a half talking about how I don't like Mac OS and Windows is a superior OS, I wouldn't be surprised to have them ask me to sit down and stop talking. I wouldn't feign indignation or accuse them of being rude. I knew what the group was and why they were there.

And all of my lives are going fine. Thanks for asking.

[Guest]

The fact that it was predictable does not mean it was not surprising nor shocking.

It's my understanding that something that is predictable, by definition, can't be "surprising." How do you understand it?

That’s the only part of my post that you chose to respond to?

It’s predictabie that someone outing themselves at Testimony Meeting would result in a request for them to sit down. To do it to a 12 year old girl by switching her microphone off, was surprising. That they still treat gay members badly at every opportunity is shocking.

But hey, focus on the pedantry and the Bishops feelings...