Prophet Nelson's Big Announcement

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_Xenophon
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Re: Prophet Nelson's Big Announcement

Post by _Xenophon »

Water Dog wrote:Name change, elimination of monthly stat harassment, improved focus on what should matter, no weird obsession with having to meet in person or conduct the visit in a particular format. Overall I like the sound of it, seems to be what I did all along and have been arguing for years.

One point of potential concern is instead of monthly stats they want a quarterly PPI. Uhhhh. Yikes. Maybe that's not a concern, I guess just depends on how that goes. Whether it's a kind of worthiness interview for the "minister" vs a quick status check on how folks are doing. Home teachers already should have been making EQP/bishop aware of any problems though.
I know I bang on the branch/small ward drum a lot but it is most of my experience in my time in the church. These changes ought to be very helpful for them. HT/VT requirements were one of the biggest single pressures on these smaller units (I imagine this holds true for large wards too) as there are frankly far too few strong members to carry the workload. Anecdotally I even had a pretty decent member once stop coming to church over being harassed to home teach more. By trying to take the small resource pool and more effectively apply it to where it should matter the members should feel better, at least (even if it maybe doesn't improve membership numbers). It is nice to see the social media change, in the spread out wards/branches it is often the most effective way a touching base with less or non actives. A good sign that someone towards the top is seeing the pain that HT/VT was causing.

The quarterly PPI sounds about right, if done correctly. I had a branch president that used the PPI very effectively for status check-ins, albeit typically just for the member and his family. If they are utilized in that way it should be a much more streamlined process.

All that said, I'm skeptical that this will usher in some grand changes for the LDS church. We will just have to wait see if this is a better method for reactivation, retention and care giving.
"If you consider what are called the virtues in mankind, you will find their growth is assisted by education and cultivation." -Xenophon of Athens
_I have a question
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Re: Prophet Nelson's Big Announcement

Post by _I have a question »

Hmm.

One of the issues with the Home Teaching Programme was that only a few of the ward members bothered to do it. Most didn’t bother, or just put in the odd phone call. With the really dedicated members focussing on a few of the families that were interested or needed support. It was a real problem meeting the 100% numbers, and embarrassing to report the shortfall each month.

It seems all that Nelson has done is amend the programme to match the activity that is actually happening and called it something different. Suddenly it’s a successful new programme rather than a failing old one, even though nothing has actually changed.

Spin Doctiring 101.
“When we are confronted with evidence that challenges our deeply held beliefs we are more likely to reframe the evidence than we are to alter our beliefs. We simply invent new reasons, new justifications, new explanations. Sometimes we ignore the evidence altogether.” (Mathew Syed 'Black Box Thinking')
_kairos
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Re: Prophet Nelson's Big Announcement

Post by _kairos »

Look we know not 1 in a 100 HT reports was accurate- men lied their asses off to get the right number or have the SP breathing down their necks. So no reports so no more lying and probably a lot less ministering which is all good!
_Xenophon
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Re: Prophet Nelson's Big Announcement

Post by _Xenophon »

kairos wrote:Look we know not 1 in a 100 HT reports was accurate- men lied their asses off to get the right number or have the SP breathing down their necks. So no reports so no more lying and probably a lot less ministering which is all good!

I do think if they execute this change properly(a big if, I know) that you might actually see an increase in households actually contacted(as opposed to the pencil whipping that went on before). The previous model was so overwhelming to many members that I know that it wasn't uncommon for them to just not really try. By removing the completion exciting, allowing for social media usage and moving to a more targeted strategy the could potentially do much more good.

Note that this is just based of my personal experience and perhaps I've read the situation wrong entirely.
"If you consider what are called the virtues in mankind, you will find their growth is assisted by education and cultivation." -Xenophon of Athens
_cinepro
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Re: Prophet Nelson's Big Announcement

Post by _cinepro »

kairos wrote:Look we know not 1 in a 100 HT reports was accurate- men lied their asses off to get the right number or have the stake president breathing down their necks. So no reports so no more lying and probably a lot less ministering which is all good!


A few years ago we had an EQ President that was not only exceptionally honest, but also exceptionally lazy. There was actually a month where he turned in a report of 0% home teaching to the Stake!
_churchistrue
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Re: Prophet Nelson's Big Announcement

Post by _churchistrue »

So some people are freaking out about people calling such mundane policy changes as "revelation". I think this is a good thing for the church, to move the church and members in a direction where revelation is not considered so grand.

http://www.churchistrue.com/blog/russel ... our-lives/
Sharing a view of non-historical/metaphorical "New Mormonism" on my blog http://www.churchistrue.com/
_Fence Sitter
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Re: Prophet Nelson's Big Announcement

Post by _Fence Sitter »

churchistrue wrote:So some people are freaking out about people calling such mundane policy changes as "revelation". I think this is a good thing for the church, to move the church and members in a direction where revelation is not considered so grand.

http://www.churchistrue.com/blog/russel ... our-lives/


This new and improved version of what constitutes revelation in the church used to be known as "common sense".
"Any over-ritualized religion since the dawn of time can make its priests say yes, we know, it is rotten, and hard luck, but just do as we say, keep at the ritual, stick it out, give us your money and you'll end up with the angels in heaven for evermore."
_candygal
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Re: Prophet Nelson's Big Announcement

Post by _candygal »

Fence Sitter wrote:
churchistrue wrote:So some people are freaking out about people calling such mundane policy changes as "revelation". I think this is a good thing for the church, to move the church and members in a direction where revelation is not considered so grand.

http://www.churchistrue.com/blog/russel ... our-lives/


This new and improved version of what constitutes revelation in the church used to be known as "common sense".

I am so not a preacher...but I have been touting common sense for years..somehow it is gratifying to find that hey...I am okay..I was right!!
_Fence Sitter
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Re: Prophet Nelson's Big Announcement

Post by _Fence Sitter »

churchistrue wrote:So some people are freaking out about people calling such mundane policy changes as "revelation". I think this is a good thing for the church, to move the church and members in a direction where revelation is not considered so grand.

http://www.churchistrue.com/blog/russel ... our-lives/

You do realize the power you are giving local leadership when you define a policy as a revelation?

Any action by a member that violates a policy has now been elevated to rejecting a revelation.

It does not water down what the term revelation means, it destroys it.

It also allows top leadership to claim direct instructions from God in anything they say as a policy. It, in essence, makes our leadership look like any other church leadership.

And, on top of that you are increasing the expectations of members when they hear new policies. Think in terms of the "revelation" to lower the age of missionaries. It has not had the expected impact on males serving missions it was intended to have. So are we looking at a failed revelation or a failed policy? Or is that just one of things where after the fact we change it back to just a policy when it is clear it has failed. So only those successful polices are classified as revelation.

If you want to see how history treated the Church when it tried the same sort of thing in Joseph Smith's time, just look at all the members Joseph Smith drove away by trying to label anything and everything he said as revelation. "Hey buy shares in my bank or house because I have a revelation that says you should." There is a reason that most of the "revelations" Joseph Smith claimed to receive never made it into the canon, they were just policies that did not work out.

This is a really bad idea on all fronts.
"Any over-ritualized religion since the dawn of time can make its priests say yes, we know, it is rotten, and hard luck, but just do as we say, keep at the ritual, stick it out, give us your money and you'll end up with the angels in heaven for evermore."
_Kishkumen
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Re: Prophet Nelson's Big Announcement

Post by _Kishkumen »

churchistrue wrote:So some people are freaking out about people calling such mundane policy changes as "revelation". I think this is a good thing for the church, to move the church and members in a direction where revelation is not considered so grand.

http://www.churchistrue.com/blog/russel ... our-lives/


Give me a break.
"Petition wasn’t meant to start a witch hunt as I’ve said 6000 times." ~ Hanna Seariac, LDS apologist
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