It's not my job to report again

[Guest]

Thanks for that post, Tuna_Surprise, I thought there was a ton of great truth in there. Whether talking about abuses sexual or some other wrong we can attach far too much of our healing into the "justice" of the situation when often we could start our healing journey independent of it.

It is related to the topic at hand so I'll drop it here for lack of a better segue. My wife ordered and together we read The Female Persuasion by Meg Wolitzer basically the second it came out. It is a super powerful novel touching on a ton of these topics (sexual assault, new vs old feminism, learning to raise one's voice, and concepts of justice) that I would highly recommend. Here is an interview she did for NPR where she explains why she lets the abuser get away with it in her book:

On her decision to have Greer's assaulter get away with it and continue to mistreat women

We all would love the idea of people getting what's coming to them in books and in life, but sometimes the trajectory is a little more complicated than that. ... He's still out there. ... I don't want to turn him into a cartoon villain. I want him to have done this, you know, really horrible thing in the beginning of the book ... and [get] away with it and [march] through the world in a way that some men have been allowed to do. But he's still there. ... I think what we remember of the books we love isn't so much plot, but character. To me, he's a figure I know and he was always lurking around the edges of my mind.

ETA: I fell like I should add that I have no take on the Rosebud/John situation, the water is far too murky for me to make a call and I'm not willing to do the digging to sort it out (shame on me, I'm sure). I just really liked Tuna's expression of the healing process.

[_Doctor CamNC4Me]

I love how the accused has no recourse if he doesn't want to get sucked into public drama. He's labelled an abuser and there's nothing he can do about it because people just believe the confessed adulterer's accusations despite demonstrating an obsessive need to slander him and, to this day, can't provide any proof of her claims and won't do anything beyond crap post on a message board.

Nice.

Stating outright that you believe someone just because they're making the claim is so irresponsible.

- Doc

[_lostindc]

I can't type much and I am sure 100% are thankful.

I think the people are missing a beat. It's important for Rosebud to air this out because John Dehlin threw a lot of people under the bus within the Mormon Stories community and attempted to silence some in the process using seriously ridiculous methods (in my opinion). Also, it's pertinent now because Dehlin, and others, jumped on the chance to ride the publicity train of the MTC sex assault case.

Dehlin's done a lot of good as a reposting guru and podcast host. He brought a lot information to people that apparently couldn't search the internet (kidding, but really). I enjoyed his interviews.

It's a shame we have this mess. I hope in time everyone heals. I know I wouldn't want past mistakes to keep popping up. It's got to suck. My heart actually aches now that I type these few sentences. I really do hope people start to heal.

What is weird, people are mad at Rosebud. Flipping out and demanding she communicate in a specific manner and even asking for her to either sue or shut up. WTF? Why does one need to sue in this case? She got messed over. Look at us, on a Mormon oriented message board, most of us post-Mo, and still talking about how the Church lied to us and whatever other crap that pisses us off. See, it's not easy to just let phenomena slide.

[_Doctor CamNC4Me]

Uh. Because this has gone on FOR OVER FIVE “F” ING YEARS?

crap or get off the pot. It's just bitter vindictiveness at this point. And to be fair, I don't believe anything she's saying because she won't provide proof of anything, and if she had anything to begin with she would've already lawyered up.

- Doc

[_Jersey Girl]

One thing that I think is helpful for everyone to remember is that the response each person has to what I'm doing tells us about the individual having the response more than it says anything about me. That goes for people and life in general.....

I think it's helpful to remember that the comments you receive here are based on your own behavior.

[_Rosebud]

John,

So.... I did some Googling and saw that you made a post asking for recommendations on a defamation attorneys.

I don't know how much you know about lawsuits, but the first thing that would happen is that we'd both release every email that ever went between us. And you'd be required to release every email in which you mentioned my name, ever. I'd have to do the same for you. And attorneys would subpoena all related emails from elsewhere, too. All of the posts on this board and their dates and how they coincided with public events would be scoured.

I mean, I think litigation is really silly and stupid and that the courts are full of unwell people trying to intimidate each other and steal things from each other. I wouldn't sue. It's a crazy process, but it isn't a one-way thing. I would probably end up looking for emails that went between you and other women. And when it's part of a court case, people have to send them in. Maybe they'd want to. Idk.

And then all of that would just be released to the public because that's the whole point of the suit, right? I don't know what you have on me to shame me? Those texts where I asked if you'd grow antlers if you answered me and gave me my files? Wouldn't I just tell a jury how awful it was to lose all my work to you and how I was just trying to get you to answer because you had intellectual property that belonged to me? I like the book Imogene's Antlers, that's all. Would you try to shame me conversation we had about what your dad said about your relationship in August (here I am not telling the world about that text conversation to protect you because it would be embarrassing for you, but you're thinking you'll use these conversations to shame me like you did in your reply to the charge)? How would that shame me and how would it change the power imbalance and even the reason why you gave me the job? I could talk about the Quinn conference, etc.

The world is different in 2018 than it was in 2012. I know you think you've destroyed my credibility, but I don't think the posts on this board are a good indication of the credibility I really have. And couldn't that be one of my arguments against you? All the work you put into destroying my credibility? Who'd win? Would the Open Stories Foundation pay your legal fees? Would I ask for donations to cover mine? Shoot, the doxxing thread here is awesome for me. After that thread I texted the board and you haven't posted here since. I wonder what happened? We could ask people during their depositions.

I mean yeah.... I protect my in real life name, but I'm not scared. It's just a name. I am who I am regardless.

I know you don't like the way I've released this, but that goes back to me practically begging for a win-win solution and all of my extreme fear in 2012 because of your release plan. You didn't care. Zero empathy or compassion. Your first attorney wouldn't even do what you wanted because it was too cruel.

I know it's all exciting when people sue the church, but I haven't got any money to take. If you got a judgement against me, then what? I mean, I get that it's about publicity and that it hurts. But what about all the people you've hurt with publicity? Wouldn't that come into it too? Look at all of the evidence I could draw from.

If I speak, I speak. Doesn't a suit just amplify my voice?

I don't know John. It all seems very foolish. And expensive. What if I won a huge judgement? A judgement I'm not even trying or wanting to take? A lawsuit seems like a mess for you.

Maybe real repentance would be a better idea. Another false repentance podcast probably wouldn't cut it. Why should I be afraid of those now? I was terrified in 2012 and 2013, but I'm not scared anymore. I grew up. I've dealt with a lot since then. Being scared is a waste.

You're out publicly supporting women and then you sue an employee you sexually harassed? It seems dumb. There has to be a better way. You don't have to be perfect, but it would be a good idea to knock it off. Take a serious look at what you're doing.

Anyway.... those are just my thoughts. I really am sorry this hurts. But look at me, I still have empathy for you, even now, and you have no empathy for me. Food for thought. Some people are incapable of empathy, but I don't believe you fall into that category.

Best, -RB

[_candygal]

No comment Rosebud. I wish you many good things.

[_Rosebud]

No comment Rosebud. I wish you many good things.

Thank you candygal. That was a nice post to find at the end of one of these threads.

John, another thing I'm wondering this morning is how you'd plan on explaining all of your really obvious retaliations if you sued me for defamation? Just the Facebook bannings are too much retaliation. It just doesn't work.

I would advise figuring out a better way to live than using Facebook and podcasts to try to frighten people.... all of that works against you. Sure, you use it for good sometimes, but somebody with a steadier head should be in charge.

And to the board: please try to see things from a different perspective than the one John speaks so passionately.

[_Stem]

I can't type much and I am sure 100% are thankful.

I think the people are missing a beat. It's important for Rosebud to air this out because John Dehlin threw a lot of people under the bus within the Mormon Stories community and attempted to silence some in the process using seriously ridiculous methods (in my opinion).

Well seeing as this type of stuff has interested me as it pertains to the Church I might find this interesting too. But, I'd need more than bald claims to feed me. When you say, "John Dehlin threw a lot of people under the bus"... how many? How was there throwing under the bus? What would that mean? It sounds like in this context you are saying he threw Rosebud under the bus. How so?

Also, it's pertinent now because Dehlin, and others, jumped on the chance to ride the publicity train of the MTC sex assault case.

Well this is right up the alley of what is Dehlin's career. I don't see how you can fault him for that. As he has defined his career he has nothing but an obligation to address this stuff. If you think, or Rosebud thinks, he's nothing more than a Joseph Bishop and so he shouldn't be addressing it, then say so. But don't just say so. prove it. It means nothing to be a gnat on a message board that relatively few people encounter. (I don't mean to offend anyone here. Just saying, the readership here is not on a scale of the millions).

Dehlin's done a lot of good as a reposting guru and podcast host. He brought a lot information to people that apparently couldn't search the internet (kidding, but really). I enjoyed his interviews.

It's a shame we have this mess.

what mess?

I hope in time everyone heals. I know I wouldn't want past mistakes to keep popping up. It's got to suck. My heart actually aches now that I type these few sentences. I really do hope people start to heal.

What is weird, people are mad at Rosebud. Flipping out and demanding she communicate in a specific manner and even asking for her to either sue or shut up. WTF?

People are frustrated with the manner in which she communicates, it seems to me. I am. I can't tell if she's genuine and just hurting in a way I can't possibly respond to, or if she's just playing with us...honestly. I don't' know why I'm continuing this other than to wonder if there really is anything to this. Not because I don't like Dehlin...not because I like drama (although it can entertain), but because I don't' want to feel like I support in any way something that is problematic. the way you and Rosebud talk, I doubt I'd be able to listen to Mormonstories again. But so far it's just talk. And I have no way to know otherwise.

Why does one need to sue in this case? She got messed over. Look at us, on a Mormon oriented message board, most of us post-Mo, and still talking about how the Church lied to us and whatever other ____ that pisses us off. See, it's not easy to just let phenomena slide.

I get it, if what you say is true. But it makes little sense if it's not true. If you feel or Rosebud feels misused by John. I can feel bad for you. But if you feel that way, and just come off as complaining about it without anything for the listener to go off of, then what can you possibly expect in response?

[_Dr Exiled]

My understanding is that Rosebud and Dehlin had an affair some time ago that ended poorly. But of course these matters don't end well usually. Beyond an affair, is there more?