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Re: NEW information ON REDACTED BYU POLICE REPORTS
Posted: Wed Apr 25, 2018 3:12 pm
by _Madison54
Tuna_Surprise wrote:Madison54 wrote:Any idea why she had to meet with a GA prior to her going back out on her mission? Was that standard procedure back then, do you know?
My understanding was that if you had a baby and gave it up for adoption (male or female) you need super-special permission to go on a mission.
Yes, I understand that would have had to take place before she originally went out on her mission. But, this was after that, correct? (Or am I off on my timeline?).
She was going back out after having to come home from serving, if I'm understanding this correctly. So, would she have to have that all cleared again?
I just have to believe that if she'd come home because of a mental breakdown, she'd discuss the rape as at least a partial cause for this breakdown. But then, she only believed it was a sexual assault, not a rape at that time. Still serious though, and to not bring it up at all with Monson would seem odd if she was being cleared to go back out on her mission.
Re: NEW information ON REDACTED BYU POLICE REPORTS
Posted: Wed Apr 25, 2018 3:59 pm
by _Res Ipsa
Her complaint says that she first reported the incident with Bishop in 1987 to her local bishop. The complaint does not allege that she ever reported it to Monson. I'd be very surprised if she reported it to Monson but didn't mention that report in the complaint.
https://www.documentcloud.org/documents ... hurch.html
Re: NEW information ON REDACTED BYU POLICE REPORTS
Posted: Wed Apr 25, 2018 4:07 pm
by _Doctor Steuss
Madison54 wrote:Any idea why she had to meet with a GA prior to her going back out on her mission? Was that standard procedure back then, do you know?
I unfortunately don’t know what the procedure was back then, but in the late 90’s, I had to get approval from the First Presidency to serve (I was denied) due to my mental health history.
So, it's at least somewhat conceivable that her having to see a counselor would necessitate GA approval to return.
Re: NEW information ON REDACTED BYU POLICE REPORTS
Posted: Wed Apr 25, 2018 5:04 pm
by _Tuna_Surprise
Madison54 wrote:Yes, I understand that would have had to take place before she originally went out on her mission. But, this was after that, correct? (Or am I off on my timeline?).
She was going back out after having to come home from serving, if I'm understanding this correctly. So, would she have to have that all cleared again?
I just have to believe that if she'd come home because of a mental breakdown, she'd discuss the rape as at least a partial cause for this breakdown. But then, she only believed it was a sexual assault, not a rape at that time. Still serious though, and to not bring it up at all with Monson would seem odd if she was being cleared to go back out on her mission.
Sorry - I misread your original post. I wouldn't be surprised if you left the mission for a mental breakdown (as opposed to something like a broken leg) if they make you re-interview with a GA. But who knows what the actual policy is. If I were a church bureaucrat and I saw that she already needed special permission to go because of the baby, I would have not let her go out with special permission again.
Re: NEW information ON REDACTED BYU POLICE REPORTS
Posted: Wed Apr 25, 2018 5:12 pm
by _toon
consiglieri wrote:If anybody has any additional thoughts on why BYU Police wouldn't want these aspects released to the public, I am all ears.
I don't see the redactions in themselves being significant evidence of some nefarious motive to protect the church or church leaders. I'm not saying that wasn't the case, just that the redactions don't prove it.
I can't comment much on UT law and how agencies there typically respond to public records requests. But a common approach in CA is to be defensive and to try to avoid producing as much as possible, regardless of the substance of the underlying documents. It's kind of a default reaction, and perhaps even more so in Utah where there appears to be an intermediate appeal process before things get real. Kind of a "let's see what we can get away with and if the requestor knows better" approach. In other words, the way institutions often react even when they have nothing to hide.
Re: NEW information ON REDACTED BYU POLICE REPORTS
Posted: Wed Apr 25, 2018 5:48 pm
by _Dr Exiled
consiglieri wrote:Just got some additional information on those police reports.
[SNIP!]
I am not making this up.
Someone obviously didn't want Bishop's other exploits to be made public. The final two lines could contain Bishop confessing to other inappropriate conduct with the suicidal girl.
The H.G. sure picked a winner in this case.
Re: NEW information ON REDACTED BYU POLICE REPORTS
Posted: Wed Apr 25, 2018 5:53 pm
by _consiglieri
I suspect the Holy Ghost that called Joseph Bishop to be MTC President is the same Holy Ghost directing the BYU Police to redact these portions of the police reports.
Re: NEW information ON REDACTED BYU POLICE REPORTS
Posted: Wed Apr 25, 2018 5:56 pm
by _Fence Sitter
I am surprised no one else has commented on the fact that an interview with a GA was (is?) required for those with mental health issues, as if somehow through the spirit, in a single short interview, a GA is able to determine if a missionary's mental health will allow him/her to serve a mission.
There is a huge problem throughout the church in which leadership at all levels think somehow the spirit makes them doctors, marriage counselors, financial advisers, sex education teachers etc, all wrapped up into one person.
"Hey if the spirit will tell me if the Book of Mormon is true, surely it will let me know if this mentally ill sister is capable of serving a mission."
Re: NEW information ON REDACTED BYU POLICE REPORTS
Posted: Wed Apr 25, 2018 6:04 pm
by _Shulem
consiglieri wrote:I suspect the Holy Ghost that called Joseph Bishop to be MTC President is the same Holy Ghost directing the BYU Police to redact these portions of the police reports.
In reality, the Holy Ghost of Mormonism is nothing but the thoughts, wishes, and impressions of any person trying to feel and think their way through any given issue. It's the same for everyone.
Re: NEW information ON REDACTED BYU POLICE REPORTS
Posted: Wed Apr 25, 2018 6:35 pm
by _Madison54
Madison54 wrote:Also, someone post this over on the MD&D board!! I don't post there or I would do it. I would just love to see smac go crazy trying to defend this piece of information!
(Sorry to quote myself, but....)
Did someone see my request? Here's a thread started on MD&D about this and as expected smac's response:
It's being discussed on MormonDiscussions.
Apparently there is no information about what they talked about, only that Sis. Denson sent a draft of her statement to the BYU police, which purportedly includes information that
A) Sis. Denson was initially sent to Washington D.C. to serve her mission,
B) she suffered some sort of mental breakdown while she was there,
C) she returned to Utah for rehabilitation, which included meeting with a mental health counselor, and also with a General Authority, Thomas S. Monson (presumably in the Quorum of the Twelve at the time, as he was not called into the First Presidency until November 1985), and
D) she was authorized to return to missionary service, but in Wisconsin.
This does not see to be a significant development, as far as it goes. There is no indication that Sis. Denson stated, in her statement to BYU police, that she disclosed to him that Joseph Bishop had abused her. Her federal complaint does not include any allegation that she disclosed any abuse allegations to Elder Monson.
Thanks,
-Smac
http://www.mormondialogue.org/topic/704 ... after-mtc/
In other words, nothing to see here....move along please and ignore
