So long Boy Scouts

[_Kishkumen]

Most of the youth leaders I know think the new 14-17 program put in place just isn't as robust as what the scouting program had to offer (even when accounting for LDS non-standard usage of the system). I think you're probably on to something with your fears.

I'm seeing a lot of excitement from the more liberal members with the full restructuring of the youth program coming in 2020. They seem to be thinking there will finally be an end to the lopsided programming, perhaps even some kind of joint venture. I predict that the result will be a program that still creates the same divides between male and female with continued emphasis on the gender roles the church believes is the proper order of things. Now the YM's program will just have close to as little support structure and network as the YW's... so I guess that is something.

LOL! In a way, liberal Mormons can be even more frustrating to watch than uninformed conservative ones (i.e., most Mormons). They are forever hoping the LDS Church will conform to their values, and 99 times out of 100 being disappointed. That 100th time they rejoice over some small unintended seeming boon like this, making a celebration out of practically nothing. That said, I think there is a slight move toward greater parity between young men and young women. If I recall correctly, young women are being included in the new ministry program that replaces home and visiting teaching. That’s something!

[_reflexzero]

Funny how Co-ed Scouts was fine everywhere else, until it happened in America, then the seer stone was flying into the fan.

But at least now maybe the YW and YM will have equally dismal funding.

[_Kishkumen]

Funny how Co-ed Scouts was fine everywhere else, until it happened in America, then the seer stone was flying into the fan.

But at least now maybe the YW and YM will have equally dismal funding.

Yeah, organizations should generally do what is best for their health, provided they are not acting illegally or unethically. If the Mormons want to segregate their youth organizations along gender lines, that’s really their business. No one is preventing individual LDS kids from being in the new Scouts.

[_Themis]

I think it’s just fine for the LDS Church to leave the BSA. What I fear is that they will replace it with some lame-o thing that’s mostly about cultivating the Holy Spirit, or, in other words, sobbing over insignificant coincidences and speaking in hushed tones.

Most of the youth leaders I know think the new 14-17 program put in place just isn't as robust as what the scouting program had to offer (even when accounting for LDS non-standard usage of the system). I think you're probably on to something with your fears.

I'm seeing a lot of excitement from the more liberal members with the full restructuring of the youth program coming in 2020. They seem to be thinking there will finally be an end to the lopsided programming, perhaps even some kind of joint venture. I predict that the result will be a program that still creates the same divides between male and female with continued emphasis on the gender roles the church believes is the proper order of things. Now the YM's program will just have close to as little support structure and network as the YW's... so I guess that is something.

I always saw the BS program in the church as hit and miss. So many called to be scout leaders didn't know what they were doing and didn't have the interest in it needed to make it a great experience for the boys in their care. You really do need real volunteers for these kind of programs.

[_Fence Sitter]

The old guys in SLC really have no clue how to fix things especially when it comes to male youth. Church is boring for them, really boring.

What ever program they come up with will not be as interesting as scouts was, will just be more emphasis on "spirituality" and just drive away more youth. There is already nothing of interest happening at Sunday church for young males and now what ever attraction there was to attending mid week activities just got a whole lot worse for them.

The church is continuing their unintended efforts to bore youth right out of belief.

[_Xenophon]

LOL! In a way, liberal Mormons can be even more frustrating to watch than uninformed conservative ones (i.e., most Mormons). They are forever hoping the LDS Church will conform to their values, and 99 times out of 100 being disappointed. That 100th time they rejoice over some small unintended seeming boon like this, making a celebration out of practically nothing. That said, I think there is a slight move toward greater parity between young men and young women. If I recall correctly, young women are being included in the new ministry program that replaces home and visiting teaching. That’s something!

QFT. In their defense I know I was not much better as a member, just hoping to see the changes I felt were needed.

To the parity, I'll believe it when I see it. Perhaps it was just our experience but my wife and I witnessed first hand how much more difficult it was to secure budgets, resources, and man power for the YW than it was for the YM. It was not uncommon to see leaders balk at the idea of the girls camping for a weekend but dig deep into their pockets to send the boys on a high-adventure trek or when such a trip was approved to have to desperately beg for the required "priesthood supervisor". I'm not suggesting that their aren't or shouldn't be differences in the programs but just that those differences should be in accounting for individual needs/desire of the youth, not in resources/opportunities provided.

[_Xenophon]

Funny how Co-ed Scouts was fine everywhere else, until it happened in America, then the seer stone was flying into the fan.

But at least now maybe the YW and YM will have equally dismal funding.

I honestly think this has been a change a long time coming. I see two major reasons for the delay of this move, following BSA's change of stance on the LGBT community.

1. Monson was a tried and true believer in the scouting program. You aren't granted a Silver Beaver unless you have a pretty solid track record of commitment and service. I earnestly believe he would have stopped/slowed any attempt at leaving the organization.
2. It takes a ton of time and energy to build a youth program from the ground up. The LDS church can already be glacially slow on paradigm shifts and the complexity of this situation doesn't help that.

[_Res Ipsa]

Looks like the BSA has other problems. https://www.washingtonpost.com/powerpos ... story.html

[_Kishkumen]

In their defense I know I was not much better as a member, just hoping to see the changes I felt were needed.

I was right there too. I think it was actually people like DCP and his friends that convinced me it was a lost cause. Once you see what it is that the organization and the majority of its members habitually choose, prefer, and fight for, it doesn't take long to see that one's idealism is poorly spent on the LDS Church. The Book of Mormon can lead a person to be blinded to this, but the reality of what the LDS Church became has little to do with the communitarian and spiritual idealism of the Book of Mormon.

To the parity, I'll believe it when I see it. Perhaps it was just our experience but my wife and I witnessed first hand how much more difficult it was to secure budgets, resources, and man power for the YW than it was for the YM. It was not uncommon to see leaders balk at the idea of the girls camping for a weekend but dig deep into their pockets to send the boys on a high-adventure trek or when such a trip was approved to have to desperately beg for the required "priesthood supervisor". I'm not suggesting that their aren't or shouldn't be differences in the programs but just that those differences should be in accounting for individual needs/desire of the youth, not in resources/opportunities provided.

You're probably right. It doesn't cost anything to let young women go out on ministry assignments like young boys, but I still think it is a step in the right direction. It is obviously one that, once again, costs absolutely nothing to implement. All of the burden, to the extent that there is burden, falls on the members. I was aware from my experience as an executive secretary and Young Men's counselor what the score was in the priority between boys and girls. I recall sitting down with a Young Women's president to watch her be lectured extensively by the Bishopric and Young Men's presidency about her "place" in relation to the priesthood. I was agog. The whole thing was nuts.

[_Shulem]

The old guys in SLC really have no clue how to fix things especially when it comes to male youth. Church is boring for them, really boring.

What ever program they come up with will not be as interesting as scouts was, will just be more emphasis on "spirituality" and just drive away more youth. There is already nothing of interest happening at Sunday church for young males and now what ever attraction there was to attending mid week activities just got a whole lot worse for them.

The church is continuing their unintended efforts to bore youth right out of belief.

Mormonism for the male youth is stale and totally boring. You know they hate it but only go because they have to. The evil church only guilt trips the boys especially if they touch their private parts. Mormonism is dying and will not retain modern youth who love freedom and the right to be who they want to be.