Page 3 of 4

Re: Latest RFM Podcast Second Best in History?

Posted: Thu Jun 14, 2018 5:46 pm
by _candygal
Tuna_Surprise wrote:Top episode of RFM is Wrong Roads. Not even close.
I agree. RFM is only topped by RFM. Consig..if you knew how much you have given a cousin of mine...you would understand how deep, thoughtful and TRUE you come through in your voice..knowledge and all things added to it. Thank you!!

My cousin left the church in the 60's...before internet ..before CES..all of it. You have confirmed in so many ways that her heart and gut spoke to her. Alone..in closet..on a mission..a female..and knew that this church was not true!

Re: Latest RFM Podcast Second Best in History?

Posted: Thu Jun 14, 2018 8:23 pm
by _Meadowchik
An obvious problem with the multiple accounts are in the LDS cannon. We have one unique account present, not others and no reference to others and the canonized one is arguably not the most credible of them. If one is made scripture, it is given a deceptively marked importance over the others without a good explanation.

Re: Latest RFM Podcast Second Best in History?

Posted: Thu Jun 14, 2018 9:09 pm
by _oliblish

Re: Latest RFM Podcast Second Best in History?

Posted: Thu Jun 14, 2018 9:18 pm
by _oliblish

Re: Latest RFM Podcast Second Best in History?

Posted: Fri Jun 15, 2018 1:23 pm
by _RockSlider
Craig Paxton wrote:
Dr. Shades wrote:Will someone please post the links to the first and second best RFM podcasts?

Honestly, RFM is my favorite podcast. I don’t know how one could rank any one episode over another. To me each episode ranks #1.


x2,

I like who has seen jesus, and the series on BY taking over are priceless

Re: Latest RFM Podcast Second Best in History?

Posted: Fri Jun 15, 2018 3:30 pm
by _consiglieri
candygal wrote:My cousin left the church in the 60's...before internet ..before CES..all of it. You have confirmed in so many ways that her heart and gut spoke to her. Alone..in closet..on a mission..a female..and knew that this church was not true!


Thanks to everybody for your kind and supportive comments!

And to you, candygal, I am very glad that I have been of some benefit to your cousin.

Please give her my best!

Re: Latest RFM Podcast Second Best in History?

Posted: Fri Jun 15, 2018 3:43 pm
by _consiglieri
My take on Daniel Peterson's response is pretty simple.

He wrote in his original column that there has been "no suppression" of the 1832 First Vision account.

This is where I called him out for lying.

The only way he could escape the charge of lying is by claiming he did not know about the fact Joseph Fielding Smith in the 1930s cut the 1832 account out of Letterbook 1 with a penknife and hid it in his safe for three decades until its existence became public knowledge and he was forced to tape it back in the Letterbook and have it "discovered" by Paul Cheeseman who was writing his master's thesis for BYU.

But as I fully expected, Daniel Peterson does know about this.

And in his response column quoted above, he admits to knowing about the suppression of the 1832 account by Joseph Fielding Smith, even though he appears to put this knowledge in the mouth of Kent P. Jackson whose email Professor Peterson quotes.

Here is the last paragraph of the article:

By the way, even if it’s true that Joseph Fielding Smith didn’t want to make the 1832 account public, that ended in the 1960s, which was over half a century ago! That’s ancient history. Paul Cheesman (BYU religion professor) analyzed the accounts in his 1965 MA thesis at BYU, then Dean Jessee published them in 1969. Yeah, keeping it under wraps.


Well, it is true that JFS did not want to make the 1832 account public, and it is true "that ended in the 1960's," and it is true that "was over half a century ago."

But it is also true that JFS hid the 1832 account in his safe for three decades.

And it is true that hiding it in his safe for three decades amounts to "suppression" of the document.

Finally, what this means is that when Professor Peterson wrote in his original column that there has been "no suppression," he is not telling the truth.

And he knows he is not telling the truth.

Which unfortunately, makes Professor Peterson a liar.

Re: Latest RFM Podcast Second Best in History?

Posted: Fri Jun 15, 2018 4:25 pm
by _Dr Exiled
consiglieri wrote:My take on Daniel Peterson's response is pretty simple.

He wrote in his original column that there has been "no suppression" of the 1832 First Vision account.

This is where I called him out for lying.

The only way he could escape the charge of lying is by claiming he did not know about the fact Joseph Fielding Smith in the 1930s cut the 1832 account out of Letterbook 1 with a penknife and hid it in his safe for three decades until its existence became public knowledge and he was forced to tape it back in the Letterbook and have it "discovered" by Paul Cheeseman who was writing his master's thesis for BYU.

But as I fully expected, Daniel Peterson does know about this.

And in his response column quoted above, he admits to knowing about the suppression of the 1832 account by Joseph Fielding Smith, even though he appears to put this knowledge in the mouth of Kent P. Jackson whose email Professor Peterson quotes.

Here is the last paragraph of the article:

By the way, even if it’s true that Joseph Fielding Smith didn’t want to make the 1832 account public, that ended in the 1960s, which was over half a century ago! That’s ancient history. Paul Cheesman (BYU religion professor) analyzed the accounts in his 1965 MA thesis at BYU, then Dean Jessee published them in 1969. Yeah, keeping it under wraps.


Well, it is true that Joseph Fielding Smith did not want to make the 1832 account public, and it is true "that ended in the 1960's," and it is true that "was over half a century ago."

But it is also true that Joseph Fielding Smith hid the 1832 account in his safe for three decades.

And it is true that hiding it in his safe for three decades amounts to "suppression" of the document.

Finally, what this means is that when Professor Peterson wrote in his original column that there has been "no suppression," he is not telling the truth.

And he knows he is not telling the truth.

Which unfortunately, makes Professor Peterson a liar.


It seems one cannot be an apologist without becoming a liar or at least one who misleads. But if we could just have the right believing paradigm, the gas-lighting apologist says, then lies and deception melt away into good feelings and happy testimonies. The contradictory first vision accounts that get more and more fantastical as time goes on, magically become no issue at all.

Re: Latest RFM Podcast Second Best in History?

Posted: Fri Jun 15, 2018 5:00 pm
by _Stem
consiglieri wrote:My take on Daniel Peterson's response is pretty simple.

He wrote in his original column that there has been "no suppression" of the 1832 First Vision account.

This is where I called him out for lying.

The only way he could escape the charge of lying is by claiming he did not know about the fact Joseph Fielding Smith in the 1930s cut the 1832 account out of Letterbook 1 with a penknife and hid it in his safe for three decades until its existence became public knowledge and he was forced to tape it back in the Letterbook and have it "discovered" by Paul Cheeseman who was writing his master's thesis for BYU.

But as I fully expected, Daniel Peterson does know about this.

And in his response column quoted above, he admits to knowing about the suppression of the 1832 account by Joseph Fielding Smith, even though he appears to put this knowledge in the mouth of Kent P. Jackson whose email Professor Peterson quotes.

Here is the last paragraph of the article:

By the way, even if it’s true that Joseph Fielding Smith didn’t want to make the 1832 account public, that ended in the 1960s, which was over half a century ago! That’s ancient history. Paul Cheesman (BYU religion professor) analyzed the accounts in his 1965 MA thesis at BYU, then Dean Jessee published them in 1969. Yeah, keeping it under wraps.


Well, it is true that Joseph Fielding Smith did not want to make the 1832 account public, and it is true "that ended in the 1960's," and it is true that "was over half a century ago."

But it is also true that Joseph Fielding Smith hid the 1832 account in his safe for three decades.

And it is true that hiding it in his safe for three decades amounts to "suppression" of the document.

Finally, what this means is that when Professor Peterson wrote in his original column that there has been "no suppression," he is not telling the truth.

And he knows he is not telling the truth.

Which unfortunately, makes Professor Peterson a liar.


I'm not very good at saying, "you lied, you're a liar". Everyone I have ever encountered and engaged in life has lied about something. I don't mean that to give Peterson a pass on this, because I think you're exactly right...he lied. I'm also not sure it's a jump the shark moment, as that moment seems to have passed sometimes around the 2012 overthrow of Maxwell Inst. It's easy to be dishonest, though and cover it up.

For instance, the very line about the differing accounts being uncovered by paid Church historians in the 60s is a repeated summary of what was in the GT essay on the topic. Either Peterson lied to keep himself close to Church publication on this (as if he was correlating himself), or he did by rephrasing that line to satisfy a bit of short-cutted-ness (or less charitably laziness).

Here's Dr Peterson's response in the comment section of his own blog post on the matter:

No, I didn't have to get my article correlated.
And whether "the hand was forced" -- something that can and will be discussed when I respond to RFM's attack on me -- has no particular relevance to the point of my less-than-740--word article. (For purposes of comparison, your comment above weighs in at 215 words.)


he seems to be trying to say that the suppression of the 1832 account has nothing to do with his 740 word article--giving himself a pass because he was restricted to so few words. Sadly he directly contradicted that in his own essay.

You've nailed him on this point for sure. I'm sure he'll slyly hope the whole issue goes away.

Re: Latest RFM Podcast Second Best in History?

Posted: Fri Jun 15, 2018 6:06 pm
by _Meadowchik
I'd say Year of Polygamy is up there. It gets detailed, personal, following the fractal-like transmission of Mormon polygamy and polygamy culture from its conception to contemporary times. in my opinion, polygamy is perhaps the single greatest key to unlocking the church history and doctrine.

Consig, what do you know about the 1886 revelation?