Allima ben Yehuda and the Prophet Galma

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_Philo Sofee
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Re: Allima ben Yehuda and the Prophet Galma

Post by _Philo Sofee »

I have a question wrote:
Wed Aug 29, 2018 1:54 pm
This is one of those threads/posts that should be in the Mormon Discussions repository, to be referred to every time someone like Peterson tries to call “Bulls Eye” on the name Alma.
He dishonestly presents this about twice a year, every year. He KNOWS he is giving false information at this point, but for the sake of the Holy Melchzedek priesthood totin brethren, he MUST continue the lie in order share the "truth." The truth is, actually - to quote the most heinous piece of stupidity God ever created - "a hoax." Dan Peterson deserves no more respect than Donald "I can say anything I want and idiots will believe me, no matter how stupid or wrong it is!" Trump.
Dr CamNC4Me
"Dr. Peterson and his Callithumpian cabal of BYU idiots have been marginalized by their own inevitable irrelevancy defending a fraud."
_Shulem
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Re: Allima ben Yehuda and the Prophet Galma

Post by _Shulem »

I agree, Peterson is a liar and he knows it. He lives the lies and is paid to do just that.

I wouldn't trust that slob any further than I could throw him.
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DrStakhanovite
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Re: Allima ben Yehuda and the Prophet Galma

Post by DrStakhanovite »

Bumping this because it is extremely high in content quality.

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Philo Sofee
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Re: Allima ben Yehuda and the Prophet Galma

Post by Philo Sofee »

GOOD to see you again Stak! A great thread to bump, thank you!
huckelberry
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Re: Allima ben Yehuda and the Prophet Galma

Post by huckelberry »

_Doctor CamNC4Me wrote:
Sun Aug 19, 2018 10:25 pm
Philo Sofee wrote:... leaving not a wrack behind...
What does that even mean?

- Doc
Perhaps its a verbal mirage like the subject of the thread. An appearance of meaning slipping away as approached.
Marcus
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Re: Allima ben Yehuda and the Prophet Galma

Post by Marcus »

from the OP:
There is a problem further with their etymology. If you visit the Book of Mormon onomasticon, you will see an etymology for this name that is purely ridiculous. Even though the Bar Kochba document has an aleph first, it is argued there that it is really an ayin (which I transcribe for convenience here as 3). This is not impossible, since the sound 3 was gradually merged with aleph in some Hebrew and Aramaic dialects (e.g. Babylonian) and that is reflected in the orthography. However, if this is an ayin/3, then the etymology proposed is flatly ridiculous.

The Onomasticon itself provides the evidence. Throughout that entry, you will notice references to Ugaritic (a language that had been extinct for 600 years by the time of Lehi) and to Arabic (which is not attested for a 1,000 years after Lehi), both of which contain a root gh-l-m, which means "young man." In later Hebrew, that gh- became 3, and it is written as an ayin in Biblical Hebrew. The apologetic etymology is that Alma reflects the form 3alm- with the hypocoristic -a. If you have to choose between an out-of-place hypocoristic for a Hebrew name spelled wrongly on the one hand, and a perfectly good Aramaic word in a place were people spoke Aramaic, which do you think is more likely? Me too. Hence, the hypocoristic claim, while cute, is silly.

But the root cannot work. For ayin/3 in Biblical Hebrew actually reflects two sounds, not one: ayin and ghayin. For Arabic and Ugaritic, these sounds are kept distinct in the writing, but not so in Biblical Hebrew, where they are both written as ayin. In Lehi's day, these sounds were still distinct in Hebrew as well (later they merged together as just ayin). We know this because the Greek translation of the Bible transliterates some names spelled with ayin with a gamma (a "g" sound) and others with an alpha (an "a" sound). Greek didn't have a ghayin or an ayin, obviously, so to Greek speakers, words begin with ghayin sounded like gamma, and words with ayin sounded like alpha. That is why, in Biblical Hebrew, the twin city of Sodom is spelled 3amorah with an ayin, but it shows up as Gomorrah in Greek (and eventually English). In Lehi's day, it was probably pronounced as Ghemorah. All of this is to say: 3alma should be, if anything Galma or Ghalma. Of course, perhaps the Nephite language (apparently a mish-mash of Hebrew, Aramaic, Arabic, Greek, Egyptian, and some Uto-Aztecan) had a similar phonological development of gh: it became ayin and then aleph. Perhaps. But that kind of argument is purely circular because its evidence is the thing for which it is intended to be evidence.

In sum: the orthography (spelling) and phonology (sound inventory and sound patterns) of Aramaic perfectly account for the word 'lm' vocalized as Allima. In order to make Alma work, apologists must engage in special pleading. Likewise, the proposed etymology for the name Alma contains within it the seeds of its own ridiculousness.
bumping this thread, as a response to the discussion of Ricks' publication of the Book of Mormon onomasticon.
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Dr Moore
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Re: Allima ben Yehuda and the Prophet Galma

Post by Dr Moore »

How many variations on root consonants LM and ML are found in the Book of Mormon?

Alma
Amulek
Amaleki
Amalikiah
Amlici
Helem
Helaman
Amulon
Lamah
Laman
Lamoni
Lemuel
Limhah
Limher
Limhi
Mulek
Quite a few of these names apply to 2, 3 or 4 people.

Origin:
Elam - son of Shem, son of Noah. Name appears in several other Old Testament passages.

It’s like Elam gave Joseph a 25 for 1 deal on ancient names.
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