Oaks - Atheists "don't believe in absolute right and wrong"

[_sunstoned]

Oaks isn't stupid. I believe what he is doing with his tone deaf religious freedom arguments is part of a long term strategy. He talks religious freedom, and keeps doubling down on LGBTQ issues. But his religious freedom seems to mean freedom to curtail the rights of others that don't believe the same way he does. I was active LDS for close to 50 years. In that time, no one ever tried to take away any of me rights to worship according to my conscience. And guess what, no one is trying to take away anyone's religious freedoms today.

What is happening is that people no longer get a free pass to discriminate and suppress the rights of others using the guise of religious freedom. When you try to pass laws against same sex marriage because it is against your religion, that is not religious freedom. That is discrimination, and that is wrong. I believe he is prepping for the possible rollout of more restrictive and discriminatory policies. Right now the church is in full siege mode, and they are retrenching and lashing out in a very reactionary way. I have not heard a death rattle yet, but one can always hope.

[_SteelHead]

As evidenced by Joseph Smith's quote on situational morality, and the recent excommunication of Bill Reel, Mormons don't believe in absolute right or wrong either. The only absolute in mormondom is "obey authority".

[_I have a question]

If he believed his own nonsense he’d be calling for the disbarment of all atheist judges and a ban on atheist jurors. But I bet he lacks the courage of his convictions.

[_Maksutov]

Oaks and Cook and Nelson sicken me. The babytalking condescension, transparent deception and ignorant statements no longer amuse.

[_candygal]

Well...you know..Oaks has a tendency to just go down that wrong road...but if it seems right to him...it is right.

[_reflexzero]

So can it be belief in any god, or strictly Ada....er I mean Mormon Elohim?

Because if it is the latter, I think Oaks is painting with a very large brush.

[_cinepro]

I believe it is wrong to lie.
The Mormon church believes it’s okay to “lie for The Lord.” (numerous examples)

"Lying" is generally so poorly defined with so many accepted exceptions that that's not really the hill you want to die on for moral absolutes. You quickly get into the quicksand of stuff like lying to the Nazis to save a family of Jews and things like that.

Not that it justifies anything the Church has done specifically; I'm just pointing out it's not really something you want to carve in stone.

[_I have a question]

I believe it is wrong to lie.
The Mormon church believes it’s okay to “lie for The Lord.” (numerous examples)

"Lying" is generally so poorly defined with so many accepted exceptions that that's not really the hill you want to die on for moral absolutes. You quickly get into the quicksand of stuff like lying to the Nazis to save a family of Jews and things like that.

Not that it justifies anything the Church has done specifically; I'm just pointing out it's not really something you want to carve in stone.

Let's use the Church's own definition.

Lying is intentionally deceiving others. Bearing false witness is one form of lying. The Lord gave this commandment to the children of Israel: “Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour” (Exodus 20:16). Jesus also taught this when He was on earth (see Matthew 19:18). There are many other forms of lying. When we speak untruths, we are guilty of lying. We can also intentionally deceive others by a gesture or a look, by silence, or by telling only part of the truth. Whenever we lead people in any way to believe something that is not true, we are not being honest.

The Lord is not pleased with such dishonesty, and we will have to account for our lies. Satan would have us believe it is all right to lie. He says, “Yea, lie a little; … there is no harm in this” (2 Nephi 28:8). Satan encourages us to justify our lies to ourselves. Honest people will recognise Satan’s temptations and will speak the whole truth, even if it seems to be to their disadvantage.

https://www.lds.org/manual/gospel-princ ... y?lang=eng

So I guess the Church is advocating the position, to use your example, that the family of Jews should have been sacrificed for the sake of keeping the Lord pleased.

The point I'm making is that the Church (Leadership) carves things in stone and then goes and does something different. Their actions don't match their words.

[_Maksutov]

Oaks believes in his absolute right to be wrong.

[_SuperDell]

Mormons don't. We know Joseph Smith stated plainly that some things that are wrong can be right in other circumstances.
Mormons believe in Abortion - Catholics do not.

Athiests are to be taken one at a time like most of us should.