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I just finished, at least mostly, the interview Dehlin did with Bokovoy. A couple of weeks ago he did the series of podcasts with him, wherein he mostly talked about David's story. This second set is really good. If you've read his book there's a lot of repeat found here, but I still enjoyed it and since its been like 3 or 4 (?) years since I read his book it was a good reminder of what he had in it.

https://www.mormonstories.org/podcast/higher-criticism/

I find plenty in his work and in his view that is quite useful. I still struggle, after all of this, understanding the meaning of scripture. It seems to me scripture is anything written that is an attempt to convey the author's understanding of the divine. if so, it seems to me any find work out there could be considered scripture, from the finest novels to the most astute scientific masterpieces. With that I struggle to see a great deal of value in that was formerly scripture to me. I hear David say, for instance, that story of pacificism in the Book of Mormon is beautiful. I agree. He says something along the lines of it being beautiful and how in the Book of Mormon it somehow suggests that the pacficism is preferred to what amounts to the bulk of what the Book of Mormon is. I'm not sure I've ever seen how the Book of Mormon shows that the pacificism of those folks in Alma as most noble over anything else.


Any these are delightful episodes if ever there are some. I really enjoyed them. I'm not sure I'll ever get the types of meaning David gets out fo the Bible and LDS scriptures completely. But I do think there is some value. It's just a fading value to me. I've read them. I've tried to understand. I've gotten some meaning and have resolved to reject plenty. I think there remains plenty to get out of other books. But I look forward to continue my learning.

Oh and I didn't hear mention of more to come from him. The first book he wrote was supposed to be a part of a series and I've been looking to the next part in the series since I finished the first. I can't tell if he's moving on to other projects or if he intends to continue the series.

After hearing DavidB talk about the multiple authorship of Isaiah I cannot see how they can answer the problem of those chapters appearing in the Book of Mormon.

The whole category of scripture is a Western construct, and most discussions of the topic are mired in Western, Judaea-Christian assumptions. Still, I think it is fair to say that there is a special class of shared narratives in any community that becomes the vehicle for wrestling with great existential and moral questions. I think the Christian idea of scripture is generally too restrictive to capture this phenomenon adequately.

Kishkumen wrote:The whole category of scripture is a Western construct, and most discussions of the topic are mired in Western, Judaea-Christian assumptions.

I dunno about that. Maybe you could elaborate. It (scripture as a construct similar to as in the West) seems to be a pretty big deal in Islam, too.

Morley wrote:I dunno about that. Maybe you could elaborate. It (scripture as a construct similar to as in the West) seems to be a pretty big deal in Islam, too.

Sure. I was trying to say that most scholarly discussions about what scripture is are dominated by Judaeo-Christian assumptions. I was not saying that Islam is not a religion of the Book, or that the Koran is not the premier sacred text in that tradition.

Kishkumen wrote:The whole category of scripture is a Western construct, and most discussions of the topic are mired in Western, Judaea-Christian assumptions.

Morley wrote:I dunno about that. Maybe you could elaborate. It (scripture as a construct similar to as in the West) seems to be a pretty big deal in Islam, too.

Sure. I was trying to say that most scholarly discussions about what scripture is are dominated by Judaeo-Christian assumptions. I was not saying that Islam is not a religion of the Book, or that the Koran is not the premier sacred text in that tradition.

Got it. Thank you.

Tangential - Here is a fun David Bokovoy song:
https://soundcloud.com/david-bokovoy-1/a-fine-day-the-donald-trump-apocalyptic-nightmare-blues

Bokovoy is where the church has to go. Pretending or avoiding the fact that the scriptures are man made and not historical will not work much longer for the vast majority. Given this, what will become of the secret finances? Do the GA's really believe that people will continue to blindly give to a corporation masquerading as a church once Bokovoy's views are adopted?

Throughly enjoyed this series of interviews. Bokovoy’s insights into the Higher Criticism of Mormon scripture was fascinating. While I was well aware of the problem for Book of Mormon truth claims due to its inclusion of deutro Isaiah, I was not aware of the other problems caused by the many sermons given by Book of Mormon characters Lehi, Nephi, Jacob, Jesus and Moroni whose sermons were also dependent on Deutro Isaiah.

Each of these are death nails on an ancient origin for the Book of Mormon but combined drives than exclamation point on that reality.

Exiled wrote:Bokovoy is where the church has to go. Pretending or avoiding the fact that the scriptures are man made and not historical will not work much longer for the vast majority. Given this, what will become of the secret finances? Do the GA's really believe that people will continue to blindly give to a corporation masquerading as a church once Bokovoy's views are adopted?

I think Church leaders would rather "fool some of the people all of the time" than try to "fool all of the people some of the time." It's worked for almost 200 years.