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Re: Possible purge of the Maxwell Instutute?

Posted: Mon Dec 31, 2018 12:52 pm
by _Kishkumen
Thanks for sharing this information, guys. It is interesting to know that the Maxwell Institute is going to be very handsomely supported by the Church, to the tune of probably 7 figures. Undoubtedly this is much more support than Book of Mormon Central, FAIR, and Interpreter will receive combined. I am very happy to see Prof. Givens and Fiona joining Maxwell Institute. That is very good news.

But I do think all of this confirms the seriousness of the Church’s current situation. Serious money and institutional oversight is being thrown at the challenge posed by the podcasters and bloggers. One imagines that some strings are attached to the money.

Re: Possible purge of the Maxwell Instutute?

Posted: Mon Dec 31, 2018 1:19 pm
by _Kishkumen
Dr. Morgan Davis, fellow at Maxwell Institute, just dropped the hammer on the Midgleys, Lloyds, and Peterson's out there:

My name is Morgan Davis; I am a fellow at the Neal A. Maxwell Institute for Religious Scholarship. I have been with the Institute since its earliest days at Brigham Young University, though I here speak only for myself. I have seen the Institute undergo numerous changes throughout its two decades at BYU during which the leadership of the Institute has always worked closely with the administration of BYU to implement its program. Along the way, numerous leaders of the Church have weighed in on the Institute and our work, both over the pulpit and behind the scenes. Elder Holland’s address to us this past fall was the most recent and arguably the most significant of such statements, because in addition to counsel like what has been given before, it was an explicit and very public apostolic charge. As such, it was specifically directed to the Neal A. Maxwell Institute. It was an important moment for us. We were called (again) to do our best work in the most faithful way we know how, and to do it always with an eye single to the glory of God. We understand this, and take it very seriously, which is why I feel the need to address some of what is being said here.

I know that there are still disagreements about the changes that happened in 2012 and thereafter. Much of the disagreement is about how radical the change even was. Was it a traitorous conspiracy to abandon all that the Church and the Saints and the Institute’s donors held dear, or was it a thoroughly vetted albeit difficult administrative decision to make an editorial change that was then blown way, way out of proportion? A disagreement of this sort is one thing. But when it gets escalated into expressed doubts about the faithfulness of those involved to the restored gospel of Jesus Christ, that is a serious matter. Since 2012, my colleagues at the Neal A. Maxwell Institute have had to adjust to a slow but persistent drip of public innuendo, back-channel campaigning against the Institute, and direct accusations of faithlessness, nefariousness, or even apostasy by people who ought to know better or by people who don’t know us at all.

For years now it has seemed best not to dignify such accusations with a response, but Elder Holland’s charge to us has changed that, at least for me. We are to “be ready always to give an answer to everyone that asketh… a reason of the hope that is in [us],” but “with meekness and fear,” a qualifier that for some reason has often been omitted by those quoting this verse like a battle cry. And so I come here in fear and trembling to state what I should not have to state—that the Neal A. Maxwell Institute for Religious Scholarship at BYU is staffed by individuals who without exception are faithful, service-oriented, members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints with active ecclesiastical endorsements. The Maxwell Institute is not “dangerously close to apostasy,” an accusation that says more about those making it or silently approving of it than it does about any member of the Institute. Contrary to representations being made here and elsewhere, everything I have seen and heard internally at the Institute since Elder Holland’s address indicates to me that the Institute continues to enjoy the strong support and confidence of the leadership of BYU and of the Church who recently weighed in on and approved our revised mission statement, allocated substantial new funding, and are constructing a new building to house us at the center of campus. We continue to offer books, blog posts, a podcast, and scholarship that is consecrated to help the average Latter-day Saint appreciate our tradition more fully, defend it, stick with it, and live it with greater confidence and joy. We see our work as allied with the work of the Religious Studies Center, FAIR Mormon, BYU Studies, Interpreter, Book of Mormon Central, Deseret Book, and the Church history department. It is irresponsible to suggest that any of these institutions are off the rails.

We may never agree over the meaning and magnitude of what happened in 2012. But the pettiness and rancor over it have festered for too long. In the potent words of President Uchtdorf (from 2012!), it’s time to “stop it.” We are fellow Saints and ought to show more respect for the covenants and faith that join us to one another in the fellowship of Christ. We all have different perspectives; we approach our discipleship in our individual ways. But we all love the Gospel of Jesus Christ. We all love the Book of Mormon for its ancient witnesses of Christ. We all sustain our living prophets and apostles. And we are all anxiously engaged in building Zion. Let that be enough. Let us love one another and forgive one another as the gospel requires. If this plea raises sincere questions for you or prompts a desire for reconciliation, my contact information is available via the Maxwell Institute; please reach out to me privately and we can begin to seek better understanding together.

Re: Possible purge of the Maxwell Instutute?

Posted: Mon Dec 31, 2018 1:33 pm
by _Lemmie
ETA I just read Kishkumen's quote above. WOW.

midgley wrote:...and then eventually to the endorsement of FAIR, Book of Mormon Central and the Interpreter Foundation and more recently to the creation by the Brethren, after careful consideration, of a coordinating agency to oversee the work of those three independent agencies, and also to raise and disburse funds to help support their endeavors.

To "oversee the work"? To "disburse funds"? That sounds to me like the Brethren aren't happy with those three groups and are planning to rein them in. Midgley doesn't quite seem to understand who plans to control the Interpreter Foundation.
midgley wrote:Those who are not caught up with the dominant secular culture, which is heavily larded with post-enlightenment skepticism about divine things, and who take seriously both the grounds and contents of faith in God, do not need a tether, though they very much appreciate having Apostolic endorsements for their endeavors. Professor Peterson did not call especial attention to or gloat over the carefully worded spanking administered by Elder Holland to the Maxwell Institute
Maybe Peterson's comments about a course correction and Midgleys reference to "a carefully worded spanking" are projection.

How does a religion just form an agency to take over a non-profit foundation, anyway? I'm guessing even the appearance of the Interpreter's transparency over financial numbers is about to disappear.

Also ETA: after what Kishkumen quoted above, a comment by a Maxwell Institute fellow, the taking over of the Book of Mormon Central, FAIR, and the Interpreter Foundation makes much more sense. They've had enough.

Re: Possible purge of the Maxwell Instutute?

Posted: Mon Dec 31, 2018 2:00 pm
by _Lemmie
Wow. Midgley seems to be spilling a lot of beans here. This is a comment from SEN.
BYU President and the Academic and Associate Academic Vice President were involved in giving Professor Peterson the boot. His eventual firing by email yet when he was on university business in Jerusalem, was Jerry Bradford's decision that he told me did not sit well with the BYU Administration. It also came as a shock to the Brethren.

But the really bizarre attempt to get Professor Peterson to resign was known to at least President Samuelson. How do I know this? I had the memo that President Samuelson wrote in which he ordered Professor Peterson not to publish Gregory Smith essay detailing the apostasy of John Dehlin my hand long enough to scribble down its contents.

Samuelson indicated that he did not agree with, support or approve of anything that Dehlin believes or says, but he believed that the Brethren wanted to deal with Dehlin in their own time and way. And that Professor Peterson could not publish that very long and detailed essay. Instead of resigning, Dan said that we would not publish it.

But what President Samuelson did not know is that one of the Brethren--Elder Packer, for any who are interested, urged us to have Gregory Smith write that essay. And I have it reviewed by several of the Brethren by sending a copy to Elder Bruce Porter, who had constant contact with the Apostles. He was in charge of all the Apostolic committees, including the Area Committee.

And I also sent a copy to the secretary to the Strengthening the Church Members Committee so that the Seventies who constitute that committee comment on it. So President Samuelson flatly wrong about what the Brethren wanted done about Dehlin. The fact is that they wanted us to expose Dehlin's demonic mischief.

What seems to have led to Samuelson knowing about Greg Smith's essay detailing Dehlin mischief, was that Morgan Davis, still and employee of the Maxwell Institute either by accident or intentionally informed a disciple of Dehlin about Greg Smith's essay and Dehlin made a huge fuss about what he called a "hit piece" we were about to publish.

But Samuelson, Bradford, Morgan Davis, Brent Webb, or John Dehlin had read a word of Greg Smith essay. Quite a few of the Apostles and Seventy had read it and made comments about it, and fully approved of our publishing that essay.

Please remember Elder Maxwell's famous statement that Elder Holland quoted--"No more slam dunks." The Brethren have wanted and expected qualified Latter-day Saint scholars to defend the faith, including people like Denver Snuffer, as well as John Dehlin. Some of our most serious problem have always come from those on the fringes of the community of Saints. And the[y] often prefer that we deal with them rather than have to try to do so themselves....

Hasn't Peterson always argued that NO ONE told Greg to write the Dehlin piece? Now Midgley says Packer himself requested it!?

Re: Possible purge of the Maxwell Instutute?

Posted: Mon Dec 31, 2018 2:11 pm
by _moksha
So those that Book of Mormonland Tour (like Dr. Peterson was on when receiving that cursed email) was a BYU business enterprise?

Elder Packer ordering a hit piece on John Dehlin? Wonder if they might someday be compiled into a book chapter entitled, Covert Acts of the Apostles by the Council of Orem?

Re: Possible purge of the Maxwell Instutute?

Posted: Mon Dec 31, 2018 2:13 pm
by _Lemmie
Blair Hodges wrote:Hi, Dr. Midgely. I did not claim one way or another that "the brethren were involved in the purge." For one, because I reject that categorization of events altogether. Secondly, the official position of the Institute, based on the desires of BYU itself, is that it does not generally give specifics about internal personnel decisions. Dr. Peterson's case is no exception.

I recognize some people have been eager to lay snares for me and others at the Institute in a sort of campaign against the Institute. But for all your efforts we're still here doing exactly what the University has either directly asked us to do, or in other cases merely approved of us doing.

I wish you the best in your own corner of the vineyard. And I appreciated your email of apology for your behavior at the lecture itself. Hopefully you can continue in that same spirit moving forward, instead of trying to generate controversy and bad feeling amongst the Saints.

BYU was never like this when I was there. Did Midgley misbehave himself at yet another event?

Re: Possible purge of the Maxwell Instutute?

Posted: Mon Dec 31, 2018 2:23 pm
by _moksha
Lemmie wrote:Hasn't Peterson always argued that NO ONE told Greg to write the Dehlin piece? Now Midgley says Packer himself requested it!?

Dr. Peterson was just following the doctrine of Lying for the Lord. It could have been embarrassing to Elder Packer if it was revealed that he ordered a hit piece against a member to be written for some scandal sheet.

Re: Possible purge of the Maxwell Instutute?

Posted: Mon Dec 31, 2018 2:46 pm
by _Kishkumen
BYU President and the Academic and Associate Academic Vice President were involved in giving Professor Peterson the boot. His eventual firing by email yet when he was on university business in Jerusalem, was Jerry Bradford's decision that he told me did not sit well with the BYU Administration. It also came as a shock to the Brethren.

But the really bizarre attempt to get Professor Peterson to resign was known to at least President Samuelson. How do I know this? I had the memo that President Samuelson wrote in which he ordered Professor Peterson not to publish Gregory Smith essay detailing the apostasy of John Dehlin my hand long enough to scribble down its contents.

Samuelson indicated that he did not agree with, support or approve of anything that Dehlin believes or says, but he believed that the Brethren wanted to deal with Dehlin in their own time and way. And that Professor Peterson could not publish that very long and detailed essay. Instead of resigning, Dan said that we would not publish it.

But what President Samuelson did not know is that one of the Brethren--Elder Packer, for any who are interested, urged us to have Gregory Smith write that essay. And I have it reviewed by several of the Brethren by sending a copy to Elder Bruce Porter, who had constant contact with the Apostles. He was in charge of all the Apostolic committees, including the Area Committee.

And I also sent a copy to the secretary to the Strengthening the Church Members Committee so that the Seventies who constitute that committee comment on it. So President Samuelson flatly wrong about what the Brethren wanted done about Dehlin. The fact is that they wanted us to expose Dehlin's demonic mischief.

What seems to have led to Samuelson knowing about Greg Smith's essay detailing Dehlin mischief, was that Morgan Davis, still and employee of the Maxwell Institute either by accident or intentionally informed a disciple of Dehlin about Greg Smith's essay and Dehlin made a huge fuss about what he called a "hit piece" we were about to publish.

But Samuelson, Bradford, Morgan Davis, Brent Webb, or John Dehlin had read a word of Greg Smith essay. Quite a few of the Apostles and Seventy had read it and made comments about it, and fully approved of our publishing that essay.

Please remember Elder Maxwell's famous statement that Elder Holland quoted--"No more slam dunks." The Brethren have wanted and expected qualified Latter-day Saint scholars to defend the faith, including people like Denver Snuffer, as well as John Dehlin. Some of our most serious problem have always come from those on the fringes of the community of Saints. And the[y] often prefer that we deal with them rather than have to try to do so themselves....


This revelation has completely changed the history of Mopologetics and it will take quite a while to unpack all of its ramifications for how we view the role of classic-FARMS and the Church’s efforts to silence those it deems to be critics. If Midgley is telling the truth, then multiple GAs coordinated with the Maxwell Institute to fight and excommunicate John Dehlin. If Midgley is correct, then the Church itself has been employing hit men to take out liberal voices in the LDS Church, while maintaining a facade of being above the fray and operating strictly in accordance with Church policy and doctrine. In short, our darkest vision of what was going on, as formulated by Doctor Scratch and expressed in fiction by author Bob Bobberson, is more accurate than we had ever imagined.

I have to say, this is a terrible blow. You don’t want to believe the worst about people, but the worst may be true about at least a fair number of them. I don’t think I have been more bowled over by anything except the November Policy. Elder Packer I can see, but this must have involved far more people than Elder Packer, and one wonders whether Elder Holland has not played a central role all along. Was he meeting with people like Dehlin and Reel, while sharpening the guillotine in a back room? This does not look good at all.

Re: Possible purge of the Maxwell Instutute?

Posted: Mon Dec 31, 2018 2:54 pm
by _Doctor CamNC4Me
Since 2012, my colleagues at the Neal A. Maxwell Institute have had to adjust to a slow but persistent drip of public innuendo, back-channel campaigning against the Institute, and direct accusations of faithlessness, nefariousness, or even apostasy by people who ought to know better or by people who don’t know us at all.


WOW. I feel like I'm reading and account by Livy, describing Valerius dispatching the Roman fleet to the mouth of the Aous river in order to prevent the Macedonians escape during an internecine conflict!

Oh the weeds we sow,

when evil we doth allow to grow!

Anger, spite, and innuendo

are the tools of El Diablo.

A tempest must surely arise,

when apologia withers and dies.

Inasmuch cancer must be found,

stopped, and excised.

Woe is me! Woe is they!

The Mopologist cries!


- Doc

Re: Possible purge of the Maxwell Instutute?

Posted: Mon Dec 31, 2018 2:58 pm
by _Kishkumen
Gadianton wrote:Yeah sure, every last apostle is tossing and turning over what the new MI is doing. lol. Migdley's personal hobby horse is the center of the universe.

It will be interesting to see if I'm wrong on this, but to me what's most obvious is that if Holland had serious issues with what the MI is doing, I mean, anywhere near as serious as how the Mopologists are reading him, then he'd rip the leaders a new one in private, he wouldn't make a public spectacle of it.

Everything I've seen quoted so far is long the lines of, ra ra Rusty is doing exciting things and we've all got to up our game to keep up.


The elephant in the room here is Elder Oaks’ tight relationship with President Nelson. I would bet that Oaks is taking the lead here and Holland is his willing helper. But Oaks’ strong support for political dirty tricks is finding expression in the LDS Church’s explicit, hands-on support and direction of apologetics. The problem, as I see it, is not that the Church is now getting its hands dirty in apologetics; the problem is that it is taking half measures. Either apologists are independent or they are not. One does not have independent voices who receive church oversight, direction, and money. The MI I get. The rest not so much. Mind you, I am not opposed to these other outlets. I am opposed to the pretense that they will remain independent, and when they attack liberal Mormons it will be very clear which side the Church is on. In the past there was at least a semi-plausible fiction that the Brethren were not gunning for Laura Compton or John Dehlin. Now we know who Greg Smith has been working for and who approved of his work.