The Renlunds - Overcoming Doubt With Faith

[_consiglieri]

Oh.

And of course I expect the infelicitous analogy to the old seaman in his antiquated vessel saving the swimmer from drowning.

Bingo!

[_Meadowchik]

Oh.

And of course I expect the infelicitous analogy to the old seaman in his antiquated vessel saving the swimmer from drowning.

Bingo!

Well-called!

[_moksha]

Faith can be a very positive thing.

Such an address that Elder Renlund is giving to young adults is important to the Church because so many of them will end up leaving the Church. He might take up the work President Gordon Hinckley and say, "Bring your doubts to the table and we will see what we can add to it".

If I was in a position to make a suggestion, I would say that the best course is to acknowledge each doubt, one by one, and address them with total honesty. That ultimately will lead participants to a "What should we do now level?".

The Church needs to bring itself to the position that even if things are not as everyone has been told, there is still much that the Church has to offer to its members and humanity. It probably will require a shift in direction before pointing to what the Church offers, but the shift is not impossible.

[_JP]

Faith can be a very positive thing.

Such an address that Elder Renlund is giving to young adults is important to the Church because so many of them will end up leaving the Church. He might take up the work President Gordon Hinckley and say, "Bring your doubts to the table and we will see what we can add to it".

If I was in a position to make a suggestion, I would say that the best course is to acknowledge each doubt, one by one, and address them with total honesty. That ultimately will lead participants to a "What should we do now level?".

The Church needs to bring itself to the position that even if things are not as everyone has been told, there is still much that the Church has to offer to its members and humanity. It probably will require a shift in direction before pointing to what the Church offers, but the shift is not impossible.

It's pretty evident at this point that the Q15 are evenly divided on several key issues, one of which is how to deal with doubters. One faction is actively taking the approach you suggest above (perhaps not as overtly, but certainly behind closed doors there are those acknowledging that "things are not as they may have seemed"). The other faction is not interested in "the details" of history because they feel no matter what information they're confronted with, they know the course they're on, and folks should simply learn to get on the ship or get off (and they're quite confident they can weather the number of people choosing to get off...and they're probably right).

I don't really see the former side lasting a whole lot longer. Uchtdorf is keeping this small faction together by a thread, and his side took a beating with Nelson coming to power and him getting demoted. Eventually the young Bednar will become prophet and the church will settle under a long-term, strict authoritarian structure that will put to bed a lot of this back-and-forth.

[Guest]

Oh.

And of course I expect the infelicitous analogy to the old seaman in his antiquated vessel saving the swimmer from drowning.

Bingo!

Addressing issues of faith and doubt, which Sister Renlund said had been on their minds for many months, the Renlunds shared a parable about a stranded swimmer lost at sea and a kind fisherman in an old boat who comes to the rescue of the lone swimmer.

If each of us represents the swimmer, Elder and Sister Renlund said, then the boat—the rescue vehicle—would represent the Church, and the kind fisherman would represent those who serve in the Church. While dented and well-used, the boat is a reliable vessel, sent to help us return to our destination.

https://www.lds.org/church/news/elder-a ... s?lang=eng

“What we consider dents and peeling paint on the well-used boat may turn out to be divinely sanctioned and divinely directed from an eternal perspective,” Elder Renlund said. “The Lord has either had a hand in the dents and the peeling paint or He uses them for His own purposes.”

Returning to the parable they shared of the swimmer and the fisherman, Sister Renlund said, “Those who choose to stay on the well-used, dented boat with the chipped paint are those who recognize that the boat saved them from drowning and can get them safely to shore.”

Are dents and peeling paint the hallmarks of a reliable vessel? Would you get on a plane that was dented and had peeling paint?

[_I have a question]

“The blogosphere cannot replace scripture study and reading the words of living prophets and apostles,” Sister Renlund said. “Foster your faith by going to trustworthy sources to find answers to your questions.”

Elder Renlund added: “You will miss spiritually important events if you choose persistent doubt, fueled by answers from faithless and unfaithful sources.”

https://www.lds.org/church/news/elder-a ... s?lang=eng

Unfortunately it's been well documented that Church sources have not been trustworthy, and still aren't.

[_consiglieri]

I think they characterized the kindly fisherman as deaf, which is apropos given he represents church leaders.

[Guest]

I think they characterized the kindly fisherman as deaf, which is apropos given he represents church leaders.

I'm trying to see Renlunds metaphor of a well used, scruffy, humble, dented boat alongside the ornate and expensive Rome temple. The contrast is jarring. Surely temples should be "dented" and have their "paint peeling" so that members can know temples are trustworthy vessels, right?

[_Meadowchik]

I think they characterized the kindly fisherman as deaf, which is apropos given he represents church leaders.

I'm trying to see Renlunds metaphor of a well used, scruffy, humble, dented boat alongside the ornate and expensive Rome temple. The contrast is jarring. Surely the temples should be "dented" and have their "paint peeling" so that members can know temples are trustworthy vessels, right?

Sure, don't go around the world and dedicate humble meetinghouses as temples so that more (impoverished) members can enjoy the blessings of making temple covenants, but do spend 100 million so American Mormons can take selfies in front of their temple when in Rome.

[_Holy Ghost]

Elder Dale G. Renlund of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles and his wife, Sister Ruth L. Renlund, will speak at a worldwide devotional for young adults on Sunday, January 13, 2019, at 6:00 p.m. mountain standard time.

https://www.LDS.org/church/events/janua ... s?lang=eng

Believe harder - Is that really the best way of dealing with doubt?

Some perspective: If you had doubts about using the name "Mormon" as part of the "I'm A Mormon Campaign" was it the right thing to do to simply doubt those doubts and believe harder that the name "Mormon" was okay with God? In 1977 if you doubted that the bans on people with black skin were what God wanted, was it the right thing to simply scrunch up your eyes and believer harder that black people were in some way cursed to not have access to the Priesthood or the Temple? If you have some doubts about the goings on in the Bishops office when he's interviewing your 13 year old child, is the best thing to do to just believe your doubts are wrong and have faith that the Bishop isn't a pedophile grooming your child?

Surely the best way to deal with doubts is investigation, the gathering of more information, exploring those doubts further to see if they're unfounded or have substance? If people doubt the Church Leader's private investment scheme, is it better to doubt those doubts, have faith in him and hand over your life's savings? Or is it a more sensible course of action to find out more, to ask for more information etc?

I cannot believe the Church on the one hand warns members about MLM scams, yet on the other conditions younger Church members to be more susceptible to such scams by indoctrinating them that the best thing to do with a doubt is it to put it one side and just believe harder.

What makes this worse is that Renlund is, by profession, a cardiologist. Would his professional self really follow the same course of action if he, as a cardiologist, had doubts about a patients heart? Would he be saying to that patient "we will put those doubts to one side and believe harder that your heart will keep working"? Or would he run tests and examinations to get to the bottom of the "doubt"?

Why would the guy who authored/co-authored - Superior predictive ability for death of a basic metabolic profile risk score and A clinical correlation study of severity of antibody-mediated rejection and cardiovascular mortality in heart transplantation, be telling people that the best thing to do with doubts is have faith that those doubts will go away?

If that's all your company has, that's all it has. Peddle it as if it's the best. They're serving sarsaparilla in the energy drink era. Ice cream socials just aren't what they used to be.