President Oaks is paving the way to another Apostasy

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_I have a question
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President Oaks is paving the way to another Apostasy

Post by _I have a question »

At the recent meeting in Chicago that was recorded and put on You Tube etc, Dallin Oaks had this to say to young, impressionable people:
"I come to see what happens when I'm not here. But I had an impression from the Spirit of the Lord, to teach something to each of you and particularly the young men of the Aaronic priesthood. Because I saw something, in Sacrament meeting today, that told me that some of you don't understand something. The Sacrament is an ordinance of the Gospel. And because it's an ordinance, it needs to be done exactly right. Just like the prayers that the priests offer, they have to say the exact language in the prayers. Because it's a priesthood ordinance. Just like baptism. The Lord taught us, when we are baptized, the priest who officiates raises his right hand, and says, 'having been commissioned of Jesus Christ, I baptize you, in the name of the Father, and the Son and the Holy Ghost.' and then he immerses the person in the water. And if that's not done exactly that way, it has to be done again.

Now. When we partake of the sacrament, young men and young women, we are renewing the act of baptism. We're promising the Lord again, what we promised in baptism, that we'd keep his commandments. And also, he promises to renew the effect of our baptism, so that we're cleansed, from our sins, when we partake of the sacrament, if we've repented of them. But now there's something about the right hand. When we're baptized the priest raises his right hand, not his left hand, but his right hand. And when we partake of the sacrament, we partake with our right hand, not our left hand. And today, I saw quite a few of the deacons take the sacrament with their left hands. Don't do that. Because you set the wrong example for the congregation if you do that.

I know why you did that, because the sacrament tray was coming up on this side, and it was easiest to do that way. But a mother who's holding a baby, probably changes the baby, so she can use her right hand. And all of us should partake of the right hand, when we participate in that great ordinance of the gospel. That's what I felt impressed to share with you, and I've often mentioned that in other meetings, but I've never seen so many deacons take the sacrament with their left hand, so I thought I'd better perform my responsibility to share that with you. God bless you in the name of Jesus Christ, amen."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rEqPEKy2FpE

But Dallin is overstepping the mark. He is, speaking over the pulpit in his capacity as a councillor in the First Presidency, portraying as doctrine something that is only his personal preference.

Joseph Fielding Smith, Church History and Modern Revelation, Vol 1, p.103

It is a very interesting study to discover how ordinances and doctrines became changed in the first centuries of the Christian era. These changes date back even to the days of the apostles. Paul frequently had to rebuke, warn and counsel with the members in the several branches which he was instrumental in organizing when on his missionary journeys. He severely rebuked the saints at Corinth for desecrating the holy ordinance of the Sacrament and turning it into a feast where the Spirit of the Lord could not be present.

The first changes that came, evidently came innocently because some enterprising bishop or other officer endeavored to introduce into his meetings, or among his congregation something new—just a little different, in advancement of that which was practiced elsewhere. This tendency is very apparent in the wards and stakes of the Church today.

For example, let us consider the ordinance of the Sacrament. It became the custom in many wards throughout the church to have the young men who passed the Sacrament all dressed alike with dark coats, white shirts and uniform ties. This could in time lead to the established custom of dressing them in uniform, such as we see done in some sectarian and other churches. Then again as they passed the Sacrament they had to stand with their left hand plastered on their backs in a most awkward manner. The priests or elders who administered these holy emblems had to stand in a certain way as the one officiating in the prayer knelt at the table. In some instances the Bishop stood in the pulpit with raised hands in an attitude of benediction. Other customs among the quorums and in the services of the wards were introduced. Members of the Church were instructed that they must not touch the trays containing the bread and the water with their left hand, but must take it in their right hand after partaking as their neighbor held the tray in his or her right hand. In the Priesthood in the wards, we now have "supervisors" directing the activities of the deacons and the priests. How long will it take before these supervisors are considered as a regular part of the Priesthood and it will be necessary to set them apart or ordain them to this office? So we see that we, if we are not careful, will find ourselves traveling the road that brought the Church of Jesus Christ in the first centuries into disrepute and paved the way for the apostasy.


I hope Dallin quickly repents and publicly sets the record straight - that he was speaking purely a personal opinion and that using the left hand to take the Sacrament is perfectly acceptable to God. Those deacons deserve an apology.
“When we are confronted with evidence that challenges our deeply held beliefs we are more likely to reframe the evidence than we are to alter our beliefs. We simply invent new reasons, new justifications, new explanations. Sometimes we ignore the evidence altogether.” (Mathew Syed 'Black Box Thinking')
_Fence Sitter
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Re: President Oaks is paving the way to another Apostasy

Post by _Fence Sitter »

I believe this deserves its own thread IHAQ but just to catch people up here is where other comments have been made.

There is a 5 page thread on this going on at MAD. See here.

Also this was mentioned inside one of our threads here in which Consig pointed out that

Funny that when Elder Oaks gives the baptismal prayer as an example of something that has to be done "exactly that way," he gets the prayer wrong.


Now your JFS quote is interesting because just ten years later he completely contradicted himself and said

Smith insisted the sacrament be taken and passed by the right hand only—the right hand being “a symbol of righteousness.” He said, “The right hand or side is called the dexter and the left the sinister. Dexter connotes something favorable; sinister, something unfavorable or unfortunate. It is a well-established practice in the church to partake of the sacrament with the right hand and also to anoint with the right hand, according to the custom which the scriptures indicate is, and always was, approved by divine injunction


I wonder if, in the next life, the Mormon God will cure left handed people just like he is supposed to cure GLBT.

See this paper by Justin Bray for further information on the changing sacrament.
Excessive Formalities in the Mormon (another vistory for Satan) Sacrament 1928-1940.
"Any over-ritualized religion since the dawn of time can make its priests say yes, we know, it is rotten, and hard luck, but just do as we say, keep at the ritual, stick it out, give us your money and you'll end up with the angels in heaven for evermore."
_candygal
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Re: President Oaks is paving the way to another Apostasy

Post by _candygal »

Seriously, God wouldn't give a sh..!
_Grudunza
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Re: President Oaks is paving the way to another Apostasy

Post by _Grudunza »

I Pharisee what he did there.
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_Themis
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Re: President Oaks is paving the way to another Apostasy

Post by _Themis »

This thread reminds me of just how shallow religion can be. While I was a believing member for many years after, I do remember thinking about how much I had to learn when I started University compared to how much one had to learn in religion. Religion has one large text book that is highly repetitive with shallow content, where just one beginner science course had one large text book that went into depth and was not repetitive. This always sat there at the back of my mind for many years.
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_Dr Exiled
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Re: President Oaks is paving the way to another Apostasy

Post by _Dr Exiled »

This reminds me of how we were advised in church not to play dungeons and dragons back in the 70's. I didn't think much of it because I was so into sports as a kid that I never wanted to play the game when some friends would suggest it. I would go golf or play baseball, etc. while they played it. One day, however, I played it out of curiosity and soon realized I hadn't been missing much. If I recall, it didn't seem to have many rules, except that the dungeon master controlled everything. I remember asking our dungeon master what happens if I don't like what he said in the game and he related how some other kid we knew got into a fist fight with some dungeon master because the dungeon master kept putting this kid into bad situations in the game. Anyway, after playing and hating it, I spoke to one of my teachers quorum advisors and asked again why the game was prohibited because I thought the game was so idiotic that no one would want to play it in the first place. My advisor went on for a while about how it was a waste of time for some and that some took their characters too seriously and he related how some fights happened, etc. Then he said something very interesting. He said that one of the reasons for the prohibition was that it was a counterfeit of the priesthood. He said that the prophet could be compared to the dungeon master and that some had lost their testimonies when they realized the comparison. However, he said that, of course, the prophet isn't randomly inventing things to tell us what to do .....
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_Maksutov
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Re: President Oaks is paving the way to another Apostasy

Post by _Maksutov »

The wisdom of Dallin Oaks:

Salamanders.

No criticism of leaders even if true.

No research.

No using of the left hand.

And this guy was on the Supreme Court of the state of Utah. :eek:
"God" is the original deus ex machina. --Maksutov
_moksha
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Re: President Oaks is paving the way to another Apostasy

Post by _moksha »

Maksutov wrote:The wisdom of Dallin Oaks:

Salamanders.
No criticism of leaders even if true.
No research.
No using of the left hand.

At least his teachings and wisdom seem remarkably unified, from salamanders to the exclusive use of the right hand.

This might even prompt the establishment of a secret society at BYU dedicated to destroying less than faith promoting research materials at the Harold B. Lee Library, with their right hand only. They will call themselves The White Salamanders, in honor of the apostle who gave them inspiration.
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_Philo Sofee
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Re: President Oaks is paving the way to another Apostasy

Post by _Philo Sofee »

moksha wrote:
Maksutov wrote:The wisdom of Dallin Oaks:

Salamanders.
No criticism of leaders even if true.
No research.
No using of the left hand.

At least his teachings and wisdom seem remarkably unified, from salamanders to the exclusive use of the right hand.

This might even prompt the establishment of a secret society at BYU dedicated to destroying less than faith promoting research materials at the Harold B. Lee Library, with their right hand only. They will call themselves The White Salamanders, in honor of the apostle who gave them inspiration.


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_krose
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Re: President Oaks is paving the way to another Apostasy

Post by _krose »

Yet more evidence that god hates amputees?

https://whywontgodhealamputees.com
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