mentalgymnast wrote:Yep. But later in the thread I brought up the fact that I'm curious as to what the church administration's stance is towards this particular practice/organization (Lower Lights).
Regards, MG
Ah, OK, MG. Thanks for bringing that to my attention. As I said, I do not follow your posts very closely. I can see why that is of interest to you.
Of course, I don't give a crap what the Brethren think of Lower Lights. But that's me, and I am not saying you are wrong for wondering.
"Petition wasn’t meant to start a witch hunt as I’ve said 6000 times." ~ Hanna Seariac, LDS apologist
Lemmie wrote:One of the more amusing aspects of this board is the relentless attack against those who relentlessly attack a narrow definition of a Mormon. Even when no one relentlessly attacked a Mormon, let alone a narrow one.
I like reading Jana Reiss' posts, and thought the one I excerpted had a pretty positive message, but it seems to have riled you up, kishkumen. What didn't you like about her post?
Pardon me for missing this, Lemmie.
I am not sure why you think that Jana Riess has me riled up. If you can help me figure out what gave you that idea, I would appreciate it.
"Petition wasn’t meant to start a witch hunt as I’ve said 6000 times." ~ Hanna Seariac, LDS apologist
Lemmie wrote:Discussing the logic, its impact on people, the havoc wreaked on the intellect in trying to reconcile things, that's what I find interesting.
I will take exception to reconciliation wreaking havoc on the intellect. If anything I believe it to be the opposite.
The glory of God is intelligence, in other words, light and truth. From where ever and whomever it comes.
Exiled wrote:Do you believe that Joseph Smith made up his revelations or was perhaps delusional? Do you believe Nelson makes things up or is at least delusional? Is the Mormon God a thing or is he a composite of Mormon leadership's imagination over the years? If so, is your defense of Mormonism really just about group identity?
Those are really deep questions, Exiled. I can say this: I am not making a defense of Mormonism. I am making a defense of people choosing to remain, become Mormon, or recognize their Mormon-ness. To what extent am I simply talking in terms of identity? Hmmm. Good question. I don't know. The right to identify as this or that is kind of an eirenic position to take. I guess I am reaching for something bigger than that. I hope I am. I don't think I have arrived yet, however, and I can take being criticized for merely saying one thing or seeming to say another.
Thanks for the excellent questions.
I agree that Mormons are good people. I know my family is. So, sure, let them believe whatever they want. My problem is really with the leadership and their continual pushing to be the one church that dominates society. It is an impossible goal to reach given how obviously nonsensical Mormonism is. I don't want to be dominated by them and I don't like that they continue to push this nonsense around the world. These ideas of superiority and religious conquest spill over to family in their comments they make to me in passing. I also have an ex that won't relent. It's tough dealing with their delusion at times and I only have the leadership to thank/blame for it.
"Religion is about providing human community in the guise of solving problems that don’t exist or failing to solve problems that do and seeking to reconcile these contradictions and conceal the failures in bogus explanations otherwise known as theology." - Kishkumen
Lemmie wrote:Discussing the logic, its impact on people, the havoc wreaked on the intellect in trying to reconcile things, that's what I find interesting.
I will take exception to reconciliation wreaking havoc on the intellect. If anything I believe it to be the opposite.
The glory of God is intelligence, in other words, light and truth. From where ever and whomever it comes.
Regards, MG
I guess the problem is are you really open to light and truth showing you that Mormonism isn't what it claims to be?
"Religion is about providing human community in the guise of solving problems that don’t exist or failing to solve problems that do and seeking to reconcile these contradictions and conceal the failures in bogus explanations otherwise known as theology." - Kishkumen
Kishkumen wrote:It is really difficult to stomach MG's apparently daft approach to things when the damage done is so palpable and, in some cases, downright horrific.
If this is indeed the case...that I have caused actual "damage" through anything I've said, let me be clear, that's not my intent. But I apologize if that has been the case. I suppose that I should more deeply realize that there are those here that are and/or have been hurt by their belief in and/or participation in the church. Feelings are tender. I may, at times, not be as sensitive to those feelings as I ought to. For that I am sorry.
Exiled wrote:I agree that Mormons are good people. I know my family is. So, sure, let them believe whatever they want. My problem is really with the leadership and their continual pushing to be the one church that dominates society. It is an impossible goal to reach given how obviously nonsensical Mormonism is. I don't want to be dominated by them and I don't like that they continue to push this nonsense around the world. These ideas of superiority and religious conquest spill over to family in their comments they make to me in passing. I also have an ex that won't relent. It's tough dealing with their delusion at times and I only have the leadership to thank/blame for it.
Yep. That is a tough one. Christianity and Mormon Christianity are what I would call "imperial religions," at least in part. Their idea of success is often communicated in martial and imperial terms. "Onward Christian Soldiers." "We are as the army of Helaman . . . ." Yeah, I know I would not want to be under the power of these particular soldiers and armies.
"Petition wasn’t meant to start a witch hunt as I’ve said 6000 times." ~ Hanna Seariac, LDS apologist
mentalgymnast wrote:If this is indeed the case...that I have caused actual "damage" through anything I've said, let me be clear, that's not my intent. But I apologize if that has been the case. I suppose that I should more deeply realize that there are those here that are and/or have been hurt by their belief in and/or participation in the church. Feelings are tender. I may, at times, not be as sensitive to those feelings as I ought to. For that I am sorry.
Regards, MG
I was referring to the damage done by the LDS Church, MG. Not any damage you have done.
"Petition wasn’t meant to start a witch hunt as I’ve said 6000 times." ~ Hanna Seariac, LDS apologist
mentalgymnast wrote:Yep. But later in the thread I brought up the fact that I'm curious as to what the church administration's stance is towards this particular practice/organization (Lower Lights).
Regards, MG
Ah, OK, MG. Thanks for bringing that to my attention. As I said, I do not follow your posts very closely. I can see why that is of interest to you.
Of course, I don't give a crap what the Brethren think of Lower Lights. But that's me, and I am not saying you are wrong for wondering.
And I'm curious as to whether or not their response or non-response may or may not have anything to do with the fact that Thomas is directly related to 'Mormon royalty'.
mentalgymnast wrote:If this is indeed the case...that I have caused actual "damage" through anything I've said, let me be clear, that's not my intent. But I apologize if that has been the case. I suppose that I should more deeply realize that there are those here that are and/or have been hurt by their belief in and/or participation in the church. Feelings are tender. I may, at times, not be as sensitive to those feelings as I ought to. For that I am sorry.
Regards, MG
I was referring to the damage done by the LDS Church, MG. Not any damage you have done.
Nonetheless, I would guess that there are those that might 'plug' me into what you said. And for those people, I said what I said. I'm sure I've directly or indirectly been the cause of some hurt and anguish here. I suppose that at times I've thought, "Hey, if they can dish it out, so can I!" But that, obviously sucks up a lot of bandwidth and time. And it just plain sucks. A while back I decided I was done with that.
But thanks for not pointing me out in particular. I appreciate that.
Truth be told, you often grate on my underlying infrastructure, but I like to read your posts. They cause me to re-evaluate, look inward, and have thoughts that I might not think on my own volition. So thanks for that.
