Book of Mormon Transliteration

[_krose]

1. Why do the 'caractors' off the gold plates look like English? I had the images on another page - it's undeniable.

Just a suggestion: I think it would be more accurate if you were to refer to it as the Roman (or Latin) alphabet, since English is just one of many languages that use that alphabet. (Including, apparently, ‘Reformed Egyptian’ in a somewhat creative way.)

[_Gadianton]

I found the quote that had led me to believe Carmack removed the KJV quotations from his analysis.

thanks. I thought I'd seen something similar on a slide or one of the things I'd read from him or his partner.

I read through the Clark link. Some pretty good stuff there.

My second favorite point in the comments was Brandt's point that Moroni couldn't have been the translator because he wouldn't have misrepresented agriculture etc. so badly. It's actually a devastating point that goes far beyond Moroni. Without having Smith as translator, getting plausible deniability for the ignorance of mesoamerica within the Book of Mormon becomes pretty silly. You have the entire resources of the spirit world for getting the translation done, and you've sealed yourself off from anyone who could provide adequate peer review?

My favorite point by a narrow margin came from the legendary RT himself, who actually was just repeating what Skousen and Carmack have apparently said: Early Modern English is nearly impossible for modern readers to parse, including themselves as linguists, yet the Book of Mormon is simplistic to read. Therefore, it's not a Early Modern English text, but has elements of Early Modern English. Dumbfounded.

In a Skousen video I skimmed through he explained it wasn't an Early Modern English text because it contained Hebraisms. I guess didn't want to loose chiasmus as evidence. I chuckled at that one, but this other point; wow. To continue having admitted that.

[_mentalgymnast]

My second favorite point in the comments was Brandt's point that Moroni couldn't have been the translator because he wouldn't have misrepresented agriculture etc. so badly...

Gadianton, could you give a direct link to this?

Thanks,
MG

[_mentalgymnast]

Can you think of anything that does not fit into Joseph made it up?

The promise in Moroni 10:3-5

3 Behold, I would exhort you that when ye shall read these things, if it be wisdom in God that ye should read them, that ye would remember how merciful the Lord hath been unto the children of men, from the creation of Adam even down until the time that ye shall receive these things, and ponder it in your hearts.

4 And when ye shall receive these things, I would exhort you that ye would ask God, the Eternal Father, in the name of Christ, if these things are not true; and if ye shall ask with a sincere heart, with real intent, having faith in Christ, he will manifest the truth of it unto you, by the power of the Holy Ghost.

5 And by the power of the Holy Ghost ye may know the truth of all things.

I have a tough time with Joseph Smith throwing in a promise/directive that requires prayer and an answer from God to determine if the Book of Mormon is true. There are too many stories/experiences that I have heard from people that I trust who have received this witness from God.

And they know it.

Why in the world would Joseph put this directive in the Book of Mormon? It seems like one of the last things that a con man would ask folks to do.

Actually pray to God?

Are there other sacred text produced in the later Christian era and/or in the last couple of centuries that have a directive and a promise that even comes close to this?

Regards,
MG

[_mentalgymnast]

[Skousen] explained it wasn't an Early Modern English text because it contained Hebraisms. I guess he didn't want to loose chiasmus as evidence.

Why can't it be both?

Regards,
MG

[_mentalgymnast]

The Book of Mormon is not that complex or advanced in a literary sense.

Have you read Grant Hardy's Understanding the Book of Mormon?

In this thread I've mentioned the intertextuality of the Book of Mormon with the New Testament and the work of Nick Frederick.

https://hwcdn.libsyn.com/p/0/7/1/071b74 ... 37666d9e1c

There are some rather complex interweavings going on there. You add this to the fairly lengthy chiasmus examples that John Welch has investigated:

https://rsc.byu.edu/archived/book-mormo ... ook-mormon

https://www.lds.org/study/new-era/1972/ ... n?lang=eng

https://bookofmormoncentral.org/content ... -of-mormon


And I'm not sure you can reasonably...with a straight face anyway... go with a Book of Mormon that is "not that complex or advanced in a literary sense".

Regards,
MG

[_mentalgymnast]

5. Why were there gold plates at all if Joseph didn't even have them near him, let alone use them?

For the translation committee to have access to and work with. Would they be able to work within a vacuum?

Regards,
MG

[_mentalgymnast]

1. Why do the 'caractors' off the gold plates look like English? I had the images on another page - it's undeniable.

How much attention have you given this:

http://bmslr.org/books/Translation%20of ... cument.pdf

Regards,
MG

[_Morley]

There are some rather complex interweavings going on there. You add this to the fairly lengthy chiasmus examples that John Welch has investigated:

https://rsc.byu.edu/archived/book-mormo ... ook-mormon

https://www.lds.org/study/new-era/1972/ ... n?lang=eng

https://bookofmormoncentral.org/content ... -of-mormon


And I'm not sure you can reasonably...with a straight face anyway... go with a Book of Mormon that is "not that complex or advanced in a literary sense".

Yeah, if I want the last word on whether or not a work is "complex or advanced in a literary sense," I'll always look at what a tax attorney has to say.

[_jfro18]

And I'm not sure you can reasonably...with a straight face anyway... go with a Book of Mormon that is "not that complex or advanced in a literary sense".

It's just not that remarkable when you're not a believer, especially once you consider how Joseph was weaving in Biblical phrases/verses/stories along with stories from his timeframe.

Don't get me wrong - Joseph was a creative genius and much brighter than most give him credit for, but there's a reason that people outside of the church do not study the Book of Mormon for it's literary value.

I've also seen your link on the 'Caractors' when I first started digging in to all of this stuff. Again it's looking for any parallel it can find to try and figure out a way to make sense of it, which is ridiculous considering that no one outside of the church believes that Reformed Egyptian was ever a thing. It's actually a lot like this thread - trying to find any possible connection to something in order to navigate through the obvious problems within it.