Radio Free Mormon: President Nelson Jumps The Shark

[_Shulem]

We sustain 15 men who are ordained as prophets, seers, and revelators.

Does the apostolic ordination allow the 15 to prophesy, see the future, and reveal mysteries? Is this what caused the 2015 policy to ban the children of gay marriages from joining the church?

When a thorny problem arises—and they only seem to get thornier each day—these 15 men wrestle with the issue

This brings to mind how the early saints wrestled with the US government regarding polygamy and the Church was forced to have to comply with the law of the land.

trying to see all the ramifications of various courses of action, and they diligently seek to hear the voice of the Lord.

When they "see" all the ramifications does this imply they are seers, actually seeing the future? Does seeking to "hear the voice" means they are actually hearing the Lord's voice as if in a vision?

After fasting, praying, studying, pondering, and counseling with my Brethren about weighty matters, it is not unusual for me to be awakened during the night with further impressions about issues with which we are concerned. And my Brethren have the same experience.

Further "impressions"? What are impressions? Nowhere in all of scripture is the word "impression" used. The only instance is when Joseph Smith described his sleeplessness after being visited by the angel Moroni.

The First Presidency and Quorum of the Twelve Apostles counsel together and share all the Lord has directed us to understand and to feel individually and collectively.

The 15 "feel individually and collectively?" Is the direction given from the Lord while counseling among yourselves backed with actually hearing a voice and seeing the Lord? Isn't it more than just a feeling when the apostles get revelation for the whole church?

And then we watch the Lord move upon the President of the Church to proclaim the Lord’s will.

What happens to the prophet while the Lord is moving upon him? What is it that you are actually watching as the Lord proclaims his will? Do you hear a voice? Do you see light? Is it like something out of the Bible?

we considered countless permutations and combinations of possible scenarios that could arise.

Sir, I get the idea that your lawyers are the ones that came up with all the possible scenarios that could arise and the 14 were trying to come up with a solution to fit the needs of the Church. From what you're telling me, sir, I don't think Jesus came down and told you anything. I think you're embellishing your story in order to make it seem more than what it really was.

You say the Lord inspired the prophet. I don't think so. President Monson wasn't mentally fit to be inspired by anything. I don't think divine revelation was given to President Monson. I think the 14 apostles and Church lawyers set a form on his lap to sign assuming he actually signed the document with his own hand.

I don't believe you, sir. Your story doesn't add up or ring true. I'm calling you a liar.

[_Shulem]

So this policy originates out of that compassion. It originates from a desire to protect children in their innocence and in their minority years.

Mr. Christofferson,

The policy is a terrible mistake on the part of the Church. The brethren are in error. This policy must be overturned without delay. This will not stand. It's not inspired. It doesn't represent the teachings and compassion of the biblical Christ in which you claim to represent.

This policy must be reversed without delay!

Shulem
Mormon Discussions

[_toon]

Let me guess, there will be an extremely awkward and long-winded explanation of the term “jump the shark?”

[_Shulem]

QUESTION:

If the November 2015 policy had not been leaked and become a controversial issue would the policy have been overturned/reversed in 2019?

[ ] YES
[x] NO

I think the only reason the policy was reversed was because of public pressure as well as pressure inside the church from members who were not comfortable with the policy. Had the original policy not been leaked but quietly remained in the Handbook nothing would have changed in 2019.

I truly believe The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is one of the most dishonest religious organizations today.

[_Shulem]

We're here for the kids!

Whether in 2015 or 2019. We're here for the kids! It's revelation.



Cookies and punch time

[_Shulem]

On my honor, I so testify that I had no knowledge of the November 2015 revelation of excluding children of gay marriages from joining the church. That must have been something that elder Oaks and elder Nelson cooked up. I never signed off on that.

Please have elder Nelson come see me in my office, I want to have some words with him.

[_Dr Exiled]

Great podcast! Nelson is a F$#%ing liar! Oaks too!

[_Shulem]

November 2015

Whose idea was this? It wasn't Monson. He's in no condition for this kind of stuff. Wasn't Eyering or Uchtdorf. Wasn't Cook or Anderson or Christofferson. Wasn't any of the three new guys. Nelson? Oaks? Ballard? Bednar?

I suspect it was a legal move made by the Church under the direction of NelSatan & Oaks -- Monson's counselors went along with it because they knew they had no choice because Monson was about to die. The President of the Quorum of the Twelve (NelSatan) had to have had a hand in it knowing that Monson was about to kick the bucket. I wonder if Uchtdorf was opposed to the move and that's why he was rejected from being called back into the Presidency once NelSatan took command. That was NelSatan's punishment for defying him.

[_Stem]

Here's my take. I appreciate the podcast and hear your point of view. I don't know that Nelson is out and out lying. I think he sincerely believes his every impression is god-inspired. He seems to be using "revelation" in a way that says his impressions and feelings are nothing more than revelation. if he thinks a thing and feels good about it, it's revelation to him. And, in his vast human experience he knows there's tons of trial and error in that. I suppose that means either god isn't really behind some of his feelings, but "whatever, i'm still trying to do good and God is willing to work with me, he has to because he put me in this position", or it's too easy for people who rely on feelings treating them as god speaking to you, to confuse some things. That's why they pray so hard. They just keep bugging god about something. Of course if there is a god and he's hearing them he ain't answering. Could be because they already have their minds made up when they start praying, I guess.

I think he straight lied when he said the brethren considered all permutations, or whatever. That god-awful policy change came out as sloppy as my mom's gravy'd meat sandwiches. I mean he lied enough. To him it's likely any consideration they put into it was considering countless permutations. But I do think they are that blinded, boneheaded and over-confident. That is to say, they likely felt like they can handle deciding on how best to respond to the legalization of gay marriage. I mean idiots, of course.

but here we go back to somewhat woke members going to take comfort that the church can change and fix problems and in time the church comes around to something good or better. Eventually, one might say, the church is going to embrace the very "agenda" they fear.

[_Dr Exiled]

I don't know that Nelson is out and out lying. I think he sincerely believes his every impression is god-inspired. He seems to be using "revelation" in a way that says his impressions and feelings are nothing more than revelation. if he thinks a thing and feels good about it, it's revelation to him.

Delusion is always a possibility. However, God "inspiring" the policy then walking it back to where the church leadership can hide behind the local leaders seems too much to take. Surely that cannot be inspired any more than the criminal finding Jesus when caught.