The Interpreter; Bayes Theorem; Nephites and Mayans

[Rosebud]

It is interesting to compare the response and viewing stats on the two boards Mormon Discussions and Mormon Dialogue. On Mormondialogue there were 233 replies and 6144 views while on this board there were 749 replies and 24,220 views. On the Interpreter page I would hazard a guess that the most comments were made by folks from Mormondiscussions. On Dan Peterson's blog there were 118 responses. The comments on the Interpreter blog were civil.

[_Arc]

It is interesting to compare the response and viewing stats on the two boards Mormon Discussions and Mormon Dialogue. On Mormondialogue there were 233 replies and 6144 views while on this board there were 749 replies and 6144 views. On the Interpreter page I would hazard a guess that the most comments were made by folks from Mormondiscussions. On Dan Peterson's blog there were 118 responses. The comments on the Interpreter blog were civil.

The second "6144" in the above post (views on this board) should be 24,220 and counting.

[_aussieguy55]

Thanks for pointing that out. I wonder how many of those views were "guests" from the other board?

[_Jersey Girl]

A ton of those views are from bots. They read the forums.

Behold.

beefcalf
Sat Jul 06, 2019 8:04 pm
Reading topic in The Terrestrial Forum
Majestic-12 [Bot]
Sat Jul 06, 2019 8:04 pm
Reading topic in Spirit Prison
Bing [Bot]
Sat Jul 06, 2019 8:03 pm
Index page
Google [Bot]
Sat Jul 06, 2019 8:02 pm
Reading topic in The Terrestrial Forum
Arc
Sat Jul 06, 2019 8:00 pm
Posting message in Spirit Paradise

[_DrW]

Could it be that Dr. Bruce Dale has finally stopped digging? It's been a week since the 4th of July, after which Dr. Dale stated that he would return with some good stuff to add. Instead- crickets.

If digging has indeed stopped - congratulations and well done.

Now, what is to be done with that gaping deep hole of an article that is (or will be) such an embarrassment to faithful Mormons? The Interpreter article is a source of unnecessary and self-inflicted damage to the credibility of Mopologetics and the Church itself.

[_honorentheos]

I expect he'll be back. He mentioned they are moving back to Michigan and I expect he will want to take some time to prepare his next response as well as layout the next correspondence. Maybe if we haven't seen something by early August it may be worth wondering if the strategy has shifted to letting the dust fully settle on the paper. But I think this is more of a summer recess than a retreat.

[_Lemmie]

Louis Midgley > DanielPeterson • 2 days ago • edited

Earlier, Noel H. claimed that had friends in Australia and--"They have great expertise on Bayesian Statistical Analysis. I am," he added, "waiting." Nothing seems to have come from his friends on the West Island packed with "great expertise." Now he tells us that those on "the MD challenged the Dale paper." Wow! Scholarship at its very best.

This post by Midgley sums up a subset of the responses to the OP topic quite well. His ignorance is representative of a mindset that pervades the Interpreter editing, peer review, and article quality.

There has been considerable commentary posted, here and at the interpreter site. Very well supported, academically oriented assessments and strong mathematical and statistical critique have been given. I am very impressed by the quality of the dissenting opinions, but still, any disagreement that appears 'hostile to lds truth claims' is automatically dismissed. Why? Because it is 'hostile to lds truth claims.'

And yet the editor protests vociferously that the paper has been peer reviewed by a statistician. I can only assume that term is used rather loosely. I think we can put to bed the question of whether the Interpreter engages in an academically rigorous version of peer review. They do not.

[_Arc]

in my opinion the MD crowd challenged the Dale paper. I showed and asked Dr Jenkins and link and the responses there and on MD. He showed a stats Prof at Baylor who was not impressed.

https://disqus.com/by/aussieguy55/

I was referring to Baylor University. You have probably read Lemmie's comments on the Dale paper on MD. Why don't they have it published in a round table style in Dialogue. Remember Dialogue spring 1969 the famous exchange between Bushman and Walters.?

So, the Dale & Dale paper was sent to Professor Jenkins at Baylor University, who showed it to a statistician colleague, who was "not impressed".

In addition to the devastating commentary that has appeared in the Interpreter comment section for the Dales' paper, the Interpreter staff and the authors are, or should be, aware of at least three highly qualified academic critics of the paper, two of whom are professional mathematicians and statisticians.

One of these is Lemmie (former LDS and named on DCP's blog by aussieguy) and one is an unimpressed Baylor statistician colleague of Prof. Jenkins (nevermo). The third is Prof. Jenkins himself, another recognized ancient Mesoamerica expert, in addition to Prof. Coe, who has effectively debunked the Book of Mormon in a public written forum. Jenkins recently cleaned the Mopologists' Book of Mormon clock in an epic public internet debate.

To my knowledge, the Interpreter management has not yet provided the academic qualifications(s) of the claimed peer reviewer(s) of the Dale & Dale paper.

While the authors, now aware of their tragic misstep, might wish to simply lay low and hope the storm will pass, it looks like Midgley and his ilk believe that the paper should be, or must be, actively defended.

The suggestion of aussieguy to have the Dale & Dale paper published in a round table style in Dialogue would be a fair way to give the Interpreter and the Dales the opportunity to defend their paper in an open forum in which they can participate, but over which they do not have content control.

[_Dr Exiled]

I'm surprised this paper hasn't been taken down yet. I know the mopes want to be able to point to a paper that sounds and feels mathematical, because probably a high percentage of their target audience won't check the math and logic. However, the take down has been so thorough that it'll drive more out. It'll drive more out than it impresses to remain.

[_SteelHead]

Standard mopologist MO. Produce crap. Declare victory.