How Many Subscribers Does "Mormon Interpreter" Have?

The catch-all forum for general topics and debates. Minimal moderation. Rated PG to PG-13.
_Doctor Scratch
_Emeritus
Posts: 8025
Joined: Sat Apr 18, 2009 4:44 pm

How Many Subscribers Does "Mormon Interpreter" Have?

Post by _Doctor Scratch »

A potentially explosive revelation has surfaced on another thread. In that thread, I and others began to wonder aloud about the number of people who actually subscribe to the blog/"journal" known as "Mormon Interpreter." Proving yet again why he's the Dean, and I am not, Gadianton posted this quote:

Gadianton wrote:It was right there:

Not only will the journal be renamed but, over the relatively near short-term, we will be reworking our websites in order to reflect that new name. This will be done, of course, with the least possible disruption to our thousands of subscribers and readers.



"and readers". hmm...

Now that you've brought it up I'm very curious how many have paid that 50$.


You probably noticed that the Dean did not supply a link to the quote that describes "thousands of subscribers and readers." For readers who are unaware of what he's referring to, it's this post from January of this year on "Sic et Non," announcing Interpreter's adjustment to President Nelson's request that people no longer use the term "Mormon."

"Thousands of subscribers and readers," eh? Too bad for Dr. Peterson, Lemmie has consulted with IRS documents, which portray the matter in a very different light:

Lemmie wrote:In the 990s the Interpreter Foundation has to file, the revenue is broken down into categories, one of which is "subscriptions and royalties."

The most recent 990 is for 2017, in which that category brought in $6798, down from $9059 in 2016, and $8985 in 2015.

At $50 a subscription, that's about 135, or between one and two TENTHS of a thousand of subscribers in 2017.


Quite interesting! According to Lemmie's calculations, "Interpreter" only has *135* total subscribers! Wow! First--LOL! And second, what are we supposed to make of this apparent discrepancy? Let's take this apart piece by piece.

For starters, in his initial quote (i.e., the one alleging "thousands of subscribers and readers"), there are several explanations that come to mind. It could be that DCP hasn't the slightest clue what the numbers are like, and he was just throwing that number out there--not necessarily boasting, exactly. It may be that he really thinks that "Interpreter" has "thousands" of subscribers. He's stated publicly that he cannot stand to even look at IRS documents; it could be that he's totally in the dark and doesn't know anything about the "journal"'s circulation numbers. That's probably the most generous reading, even if, at base, it's not very flattering. (I.e., If this is true, it says a lot about DCP's work ethic, and about his regard for actual facts, along with his willingness to go blundering into a public setting--such as his own blog--to relay inaccurate information to his audience. Naw...he wouldn't do that, would he?)

A perhaps simpler and somewhat more cynical reading is that he was simply lying. In this scenario, he knows that pretty much nobody reads "Interpreter," but he'd be a fool to admit that publicly, right? So, he "exaggerates" a little. Pinnochio's nose eventually went back to normal, right? You get the idea.

There are other possibilities, too. It could be that he still had the old FARMS Review figures in mind, and that the Maxwell Institute still enjoys an audience of "thousands," and Peterson, in his unrelenting "rage," is still mad after all these years and is inadvertently conflating the two institutions' numbers in his mind.

Yet another possibility is that he is either accidentally or purposefully exploiting the ambiguity in the sentence: "thousands of subscribers and readers." What if there are 135 subscribers, but 4500 readers? Sure: that adds up to "thousands." But the difference matters, doesn't it? A "subscriber" is someone who has made a commitment. If you "subscribe" to something, you probably had to give something up, such as money. A reader, on the other hand, might have clicked over to the blog simply to read comments, or scan through an abstract. "Readers," presumably, includes *everyone*, including the people on this board to bother to read the material on "Interpreter." Surely those readers are not the same as "subscribers," even to DCP. My point being: if mere readers are being used to inflate the numbers...well, then: that seems a little dishonest. At minimum, it is creating confusion and seems, in the final analysis, inaccurate.

All that said, I think we need to pay attention to the data that Lemmie has presented. Her figure of *135* subscribers is, unless I am mistaken, the *maximum* number of people who've "thrown in." Realistically, the number of true "subscribers" is likely a lot lower. Remember: the phrase on the IRS form is "subscriptions and royalties." Does "Mormon Interpreter" collect any royalties? If so, you have to deduct that from the total before you attempt to calculate the "subscribers." Plus, knowing the sorts of tools that these guys are, what do you want to bet that, like, half of the "subscribers" are people who are directly involved with Interpreter? (Or do they get free "contributor's copies, which would cut into the budget?) The only real benefit that I can see to being a paying "subscriber" is that you get an actual, bound copy of the blog posts (which are free to anyone who wants them). Thus, the "benefit" (as it were) is primarily cosmetic. Still, there are something like 50 or so people who do various things for Interpreter, and it wouldn't surprise me if all of them are "subscribers." Bearing that it mind, it may very well be that "Mormon Interpreter" has only 45-50 true "subscribers"--and by that I mean actual, fully-invested people who are legitimate "outsiders"--the proverbial "Sister in Parowan," so to speak. Think about that for a second: Mormon Interpreter might only have 45 "true" subscribers.... If that is true, it is simultaneously sad and hilarious, and it would also be the most explosive thing we've learned in a long, long time about Mopologetics.

Oh, and one other thing: according to the information Lemmie cited, the Mopologists' readership is shrinking.
"[I]f, while hoping that everybody else will be honest and so forth, I can personally prosper through unethical and immoral acts without being detected and without risk, why should I not?." --Daniel Peterson, 6/4/14
_Sanctorian
_Emeritus
Posts: 2441
Joined: Thu Oct 03, 2013 1:14 pm

Re: How Many Subscribers Does "Mormon Interpreter" Have?

Post by _Sanctorian »

Here’s a follow up question, of those 135 subscribers, how many forgot they had a subscription and are still paying for something they don’t read? I mean, I probably have a few subscriptions I’m still paying on that I forgot about.
I'm a Ziontologist. I self identify as such.
_Dr Exiled
_Emeritus
Posts: 3616
Joined: Wed Sep 30, 2015 3:48 am

Re: How Many Subscribers Does "Mormon Interpreter" Have?

Post by _Dr Exiled »

I can't say I'm surprised about the low numbers. The brethren don't support it (they don't want the members looking too closely at the issues and/or the poor responses from the apologists) and Mormons don't have that much in disposable income after the brethren take their 10th and the latest MLM takes the rest.
"Religion is about providing human community in the guise of solving problems that don’t exist or failing to solve problems that do and seeking to reconcile these contradictions and conceal the failures in bogus explanations otherwise known as theology." - Kishkumen 
_Lemmie
_Emeritus
Posts: 10590
Joined: Sun Apr 05, 2015 7:25 pm

Re: How Many Subscribers Does "Mormon Interpreter" Have?

Post by _Lemmie »

Doctor Scratch wrote:Oh, and one other thing: according to the information Lemmie cited, the Mopologists' readership is shrinking.

my information was from 2017, 2016, and 2015; from a thread in 2017, Tom also gave information about the previous year, 2014:

However, subscription and royalties fell sharply between 2014 and 2015, going from $15,010 in 2014 to $8,985 in 2015.

viewtopic.php?p=1061565#p1061565

So from 2014 to 2017, there was a decrease of $8212, or 55%.
_RockSlider
_Emeritus
Posts: 6752
Joined: Wed Dec 10, 2008 4:02 am

Re: How Many Subscribers Does "Mormon Interpreter" Have?

Post by _RockSlider »

Lemmie wrote:
Doctor Scratch wrote:Oh, and one other thing: according to the information Lemmie cited, the Mopologists' readership is shrinking.

my information was from 2017, 2016, and 2015; from a thread in 2017, Tom also gave information about the previous year, 2014:

However, subscription and royalties fell sharply between 2014 and 2015, going from $15,010 in 2014 to $8,985 in 2015.

viewtopic.php?p=1061565#p1061565

So from 2014 to 2017, there was a decrease of $8212, or 55%.


ouch
_I have a question
_Emeritus
Posts: 9749
Joined: Fri Feb 13, 2015 8:01 am

Re: How Many Subscribers Does "Mormon Interpreter" Have?

Post by _I have a question »

It would be interesting to know what the donors (assuming they are different from the subscribers, contributors and volunteers) have been told with regards to how "popular" Interpreter is. Inflating numbers and being mealy mouthed in claims about "reach" is a well-used marketing ploy by entities trying to grub money. It's snake oil selling for dummies.
“When we are confronted with evidence that challenges our deeply held beliefs we are more likely to reframe the evidence than we are to alter our beliefs. We simply invent new reasons, new justifications, new explanations. Sometimes we ignore the evidence altogether.” (Mathew Syed 'Black Box Thinking')
_Gadianton
_Emeritus
Posts: 9947
Joined: Sat Jul 07, 2007 5:12 am

Re: How Many Subscribers Does "Mormon Interpreter" Have?

Post by _Gadianton »

I have a question wrote:It would be interesting to know what the donors (assuming they are different from the subscribers, contributors and volunteers) have been told with regards to how "popular" Interpreter is. Inflating numbers and being mealy mouthed in claims about "reach" is a well-used marketing ploy by entities trying to grub money. It's snake oil selling for dummies.


Funny enough, while Professor Scratch I presume is correct about the ultimate source of the quote, that isn't where I got it from. The quote waves proudly upon the very front page of "Interpreter" in that yellow box about the Witness Film. Anyone even the least bit marketing savvy can see that the quote advertises there are "thousands of subscribers and readers" more than it warns about the big upcoming disruption for a name change.

If there is some road connecting Beaver to Hurricane through the back desert, I'm sure you can just go ahead and do road construction there without first placing a billboard for a year to warn people about it. Data mining bots are patient.
Lou Midgley 08/20/2020: "...meat wad," and "cockroach" are pithy descriptions of human beings used by gemli? They were not fashioned by Professor Peterson.

LM 11/23/2018: one can explain away the soul of human beings...as...a Meat Unit, to use Professor Peterson's clever derogatory description of gemli's ideology.
_Doctor Scratch
_Emeritus
Posts: 8025
Joined: Sat Apr 18, 2009 4:44 pm

Re: How Many Subscribers Does "Mormon Interpreter" Have?

Post by _Doctor Scratch »

This really does seem to be a game-changer: it casts everything in a new light. All those Friday announcements about a "new article" in Interpreter? The boasting about how many weeks in a row said Friday article has appeared? Suddenly, all of that seems a lot less "impressive" when you realize that there are only ~50 or so actual "subscribers." It would also mean that Bond...James Bond has been vindicated. You'll recall that DCP has been attacking Bond since 2012, when Bond predicted that Interpreter would "fail." Well, with low subscriber numbers to begin with, plus their hemorrhaging of supporters (per Lemmie's data), it's hard to see the endeavor as a "success." More like they are clinging on for dear life.

It makes me wonder about the Witnesses film, too: is this a "hail mary" sort of project--a last-ditch attempt to lure back the subscribers?

Whatever the case, I just don't see how the Mopologists are going to wriggle out of this one. The IRS information is as plain as day, and what it says is absolutely devastating.
"[I]f, while hoping that everybody else will be honest and so forth, I can personally prosper through unethical and immoral acts without being detected and without risk, why should I not?." --Daniel Peterson, 6/4/14
_toon
_Emeritus
Posts: 522
Joined: Tue Nov 10, 2015 5:13 am

Re: How Many Subscribers Does "Mormon Interpreter" Have?

Post by _toon »

Sanctorian wrote:Here’s a follow up question, of those 135 subscribers, how many forgot they had a subscription and are still paying for something they don’t read? I mean, I probably have a few subscriptions I’m still paying on that I forgot about.


What about gift subscriptions?

My mom bought and annually renews a subscription to the Children's Friend for my youngest daughter. I think there have been only one or two times in the last couple years where my daughter about up the magazine, and even then, only looked at it for ten or so minutes. She's eleven, but for her, the magazine's sappy art work seems designed for much younger kids, so she doesn't want anything to do with it.
_Benjamin McGuire
_Emeritus
Posts: 508
Joined: Mon Jan 15, 2007 6:42 pm

Re: How Many Subscribers Does "Mormon Interpreter" Have?

Post by _Benjamin McGuire »

I think it's more about the fact that the subscription is there to provide print copies, but this isn't the primary focus or delivery system for Interpreter. They use on demand print services, which means they don't actually do the printing themselves, and there isn't a lot of financial incentive for them to develop a large list of print subscribers. So they make access to the documents as easy as possible (lots of formats, and so on). My wife already complains about the volume of print material that I have (and my limited attic space is full), so I tend to collect electronic copies of stuff most of the time. I don't think a low subscriber base (in terms of print subscriptions) means a whole lot in today's environment. Digital copies, especially with their searchability, would understandably make up nearly all of their readers. A more relevant figure would probably be their e-mail list subscribers. Even with my own published articles (where I have print copies), I tend to look at electronic versions when I am referencing them, just because it is easier and I don't have to be at home to use them.
Post Reply