The Millennials simplified.

[_Fence Sitter]

It's no secret that the church has a problem with the mass exodus of the millennials. Jana Ries's new book lays that out in excruciating detail. The Next Mormons: How Millennials Are Changing the LDS Church In almost every category by which one would measure belief in Mormonism, the millennials are scoring significantly lower than past generations with one notable exception, belief in God. There they are actually higher than past generations.
Recently I had a brief conversation that shed some light on why this is so, with my single millennial niece who is BIC, endowed and until the conversation, I thought fully faithful LDS. When I asked her where she stood in the church, she said that while she enjoyed attending church but she did not see the need to rigorously follow every singe commandment, nor did she think leadership was inspired every time they speak. The one comment she made that really drove home her point was:

"God knows who I am, I don't need an organization to define that for me."

The church has a problem with the millennials and unfortunately the solution would be to tear down the organization itself.

[_moinmoin]

The church has a problem with the millennials and unfortunately the solution would be to tear down the organization itself.

Yes, it does, but I think a better course is to let the wheat separate from the chaff and to "cull the herd," so to speak. Yes, the body of the Church shrinks under that scenario (so, no more touting Rodney Stark predictions), but the Church is also stronger. In many ways, it was stronger before it collected the drag-inducing barnacles of uncommitted members.

I also think many of Jesus' parables and statements by Church leaders point to the Church being purged and tested. While you and Jana Riess are undoubtedly correct that we are losing millenials (I saw that as a bishop and see it in the youth I interact with), I'm not desperate to "keep" them by compromising in standards and doctrine. And, I think many of those who stray will eventually look into returning and recommitting once after the school of experience.

[_fetchface]

In many ways, it was stronger before it collected the drag-inducing barnacles of uncommitted members.

That probably describes me. The problem is that I never wanted to join this stupid church. I was born into it and intensely pressured by my parents to remain. By the time I realized I just didn't wan to be here, I'm married in the temple and have a couple of kids baptized.

The problem is that this culling or separating wheat from chaff or whatever creates immense strife and emotional trauma in families. And for what?

The church needs to become an organization that is comfortable letting the people who don't want to be there leave. Can you imagine a version of the LDS church where parents don't pressure kids who don't want to attend church? It would be the opposite of my childhood, that's for sure.

[_candygal]

It's no secret that the church has a problem with the mass exodus of the millennials. Jana Ries's new book lays that out in excruciating detail. The Next Mormons: How Millennials Are Changing the LDS Church In almost every category by which one would measure belief in Mormonism, the millennials are scoring significantly lower than past generations with one notable exception, belief in God. There they are actually higher than past generations.
Recently I had a brief conversation that shed some light on why this is so, with my single millennial niece who is BIC, endowed and until the conversation, I thought fully faithful LDS. When I asked her where she stood in the church, she said that while she enjoyed attending church but she did not see the need to rigorously follow every singe commandment, nor did she think leadership was inspired every time they speak. The one comment she made that really drove home her point was:

"God knows who I am, I don't need an organization to define that for me."

The church has a problem with the millennials and unfortunately the solution would be to tear down the organization itself.

I am so loving your niece and her take on life and faith.

[_moinmoin]

In many ways, it was stronger before it collected the drag-inducing barnacles of uncommitted members.

That probably describes me. The problem is that I never wanted to join this stupid church. I was born into it and intensely pressured by my parents to remain. By the time I realized I just didn't wan to be here, I'm married in the temple and have a couple of kids baptized.

That is traumatic. I think the millennials who are leaving (or going into deep freeze) are self-selecting before they get to this point. They are going missing between 15 and 30, of their own volition.

The problem is that this culling or separating wheat from chaff or whatever creates immense strife and emotional trauma in families. And for what?

It does, and this is an increasing phenomenon with people in your boat, who either feel "This isn't what I agreed to," or for the believing family who feel, "This isn't what I signed up for." It is traumatic, no doubt about it.

The church needs to become an organization that is comfortable letting the people who don't want to be there leave. Can you imagine a version of the LDS church where parents don't pressure kids who don't want to attend church? It would be the opposite of my childhood, that's for sure.

No disagreement there. I think trying to arm-twist youth into loving church is similar to Brigham Young's description of "forcing people to heaven" ("You'd have to beat them with clubs to keep them there").

Don't you think that the social shift in the Church is leading to a climate where it is more of a choice? The numbers are trending that way, to where those actively involved do it because they genuinely want to.

[_fetchface]

When I asked her where she stood in the church, she said that while she enjoyed attending church but she did not see the need to rigorously follow every singe commandment, nor did she think leadership was inspired every time they speak.

I'd still call my wife 'TBM' but this describes her more and more. Lately she has been relaxing on things and seeing the leaders as fallible. This has been helped a lot by recent actions by the leaders. She recognizes their attempts to use weasel-words to lie with the technical truth. She recognizes the absurdity of having a victim's help line that is staffed by lawyers who are in charge of litigating against victims. She doesn't try to defend these actions as somehow the wisdom of God that we just can't understand yet. She recognizes them as simple mistakes that have no justification.

This is very different from how she and I saw the church 10 years ago.

Edit: I also just had a recent conversation with my wife where she stated that she didn't know if having my oldest daughter in seminary was a good thing. She feels that all of the questions are leading and it is just too much of an indoctrination over education approach.

[_Lemmie]

Don't you think that the social shift in the Church is leading to a climate where it is more of a choice? The numbers are trending that way, to where those actively involved do it because they genuinely want to.

Oh sure, and the less actively involved who still want to attend a religious service get to "choose" to ignore being called "the drag-inducing barnacles of uncommitted members"!! Much more of a choice.

Seriously though, defining people who don't attend the Mormon church in their adulthood by using Midgely's term "gone missing" is a pretty extreme and unnecessarily antagonistic description.

[_fetchface]

Don't you think that the social shift in the Church is leading to a climate where it is more of a choice? The numbers are trending that way, to where those actively involved do it because they genuinely want to.

It is getting better but Mormons still love to tell stories of a person being pressured eventually coming to be thankful for it. Sunday School classes leave the church to pull people who didn't come out of bed, etc. People give woeful testimonies about their loved-ones who aren't attending. I'm sure my Mom gives them all the time to her ward.

I don't know how you fix this in Mormonism. It is inherently high-stakes if you take it seriously. How do you convince parents that they should respect their children's decisions despite the fact that their very souls are on the line? And given the level of indoctrination I received from the time I was a toddler, how am I supposed to make an informed decision in the midst of that? All I knew was that my soul was at stake and I might as well go along with it because to leave it and be wrong was to be damned, even though the church made me miserable.

So now things are getting better, but I don't think it is because the leaders pushed it that direction. I think they are trying to hold it back but it is getting away from them.

[_reflexzero]

From experience, The third generation of my family members raised in the church, which would be myself (only child) and my cousins on my Mother’s side, the number is 2 out of 22 who are still members/TBM. Most are Millenials, while myself and one other are Gen-X.

They are also not marrying or having nearly as many children (one third) as the previous generation did.

[_fetchface]

:lol: Oh sure, and the less actively involved who still want to attend a religious service get to "choose" to ignore being called "the drag-inducing barnacles of uncommitted members"!! Much more of a choice.

It'd be one thing if I chose to attach my barnacle self to the church. I would have much rather attached to a rocky shoreline on some beautiful seaside cliffs but my parents attached me to that stupid boat!